netrix bushing performance + longevity

GMR911 · 12-09-2005, 04:47 PM

Hi, just wondering how netrix bushings on the rear spring plates have been holding up on those of you who have installed them, and how long are they expected to last on a street only car. Any tips on installing them, Thanks Jerry

Zeke · 12-09-2005, 05:06 PM

Lots of lube (Pelican has something they recommend) and a smooth shaft on the spring plate should give more miles than you will probably own the car. Let's face it, the majority haven't owned just one 911 for 20+ years and 100+ K miles. There are many, but I submit not the majority.

Anything you do to your suspension will probably last way long enough if you do it right and keep it somewhat clean and don't drive across the Sahara desert once in a while.

Copious lube should keep the water out, so they shouldn't suffer the fate of the vulcanized rubber setup. My car was deteriorated in the bushing housing (for lack of a better word) and installing new bushings that allow the spring plate shaft to rotate within while the bushing stays static gave my car a second life w/o having to replace the torque tube.

I do like the Elephant product for the same reason and one can't deny that the WEVO stuff is very, very nice. But, like you (at this point anyway), I have the somewhat pliable red bushings that come with the Weltmeister adjustable spring plates. I glued them in the housings with polyurethane caulk which can be removed and cleaned up with heat.

There is no provision to relube them like the better stuff mentioned above w/o removing the covers and pulling the spring plates out. That is a major disadvantage, IMO, and is the only thing that would reduce the life of the bushing. The material itself, I believe, is worthy of a lot of mileage.

But, I don't work on lots of cars like JW, TRE, Rennsport, Henry S., Kurt W., and many others here, and get to see the wear and tear from years of use. Just my personal outlook on the situation.

GMR911 · 12-09-2005, 05:49 PM

Thanks Zeke for the reply. I have owned the car for 25 years now( its a 77), I probably buy another Porsche and keep this one also. That was a mistake when I bought this one 25 years ago, I sold my 66 911 at that time- should have kept it! Anyway, I also like the Elephant products however I am concerned about the ride harshness(as I am getting older) and just how long will they last. I kind of like the idea of having some rubber in the suspension thats why I am leaning toward original tie rods(not turbo), replacing my front A-arms with new(expensive) and Netrix rear bushings. This set up is actually about the same as elephants complete front and rear including the low friction mounts. Maybe I am wrong but its a street car for me and I really not sure if the elephant products would be to stiff for me. Thats why I am inquiring about the Netrix rear bushings. Thanks again Jerry

Paulporsche · 12-09-2005, 05:55 PM

GMR,
I can't speak about the bushings as I'm going to replace my originals next spring, but even for my 57 yo arms, the turbo tie rod ends are great--not harsh at all, and they convey a more controlled feeling to the front end.

Zeke · 12-09-2005, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GMR911
Thanks Zeke for the reply. I have owned the car for 25 years now( its a 77), I probably buy another Porsche and keep this one also. That was a mistake when I bought this one 25 years ago, I sold my 66 911 at that time- should have kept it! Anyway, I also like the Elephant products however I am concerned about the ride harshness(as I am getting older) and just how long will they last. I kind of like the idea of having some rubber in the suspension thats why I am leaning toward original tie rods(not turbo), replacing my front A-arms with new(expensive) and Netrix rear bushings. This set up is actually about the same as elephants complete front and rear including the low friction mounts. Maybe I am wrong but its a street car for me and I really not sure if the elephant products would be to stiff for me. Thats why I am inquiring about the Netrix rear bushings. Thanks again Jerry

Congrats on your long time ownership. I had a '77 for 15 years, but you've got me beat big time. Actually, if I hadn't sold it, it would be about 25 years at this point, like you.

But, I'm not back to discuss that. I see your point and can't argue with your logic. The question is, why aren't you buying new spring plates with the OEM rubber bushings?
FWIW, I think Patrick Racing has a process by which they can redo the rubber. I beileve I'ver read here that they do front arms, I wonder if they do the back end as well.

PWD72S just went the same route as you this last summer. I don't know what he did AFA the rear, though. Maybe he will see this and comment.

My take on harshness is to make sure the shocks are not past their half life. Same with your tires. Good shocks and tires, a near perfect alignment and relplacement of anything that is obviously worn out will go a long ways to helping you achieve your desire to have a quiet and comfortable sports car.

The original early 911 on original equipment was a lot more comfortable than my Boxster is. This included the much higher aspect ratio of the OEM tires, which is something I still perfer on my daily work truck. I have used all of the method I desribed to have a very nice riding truck. It is the best "car" I have out of 5 and I mean it. But, the others have their place and yours has its place in your lifestyle.

I sorta envy that.

rlh930 · 12-09-2005, 10:22 PM

I have the Elephant setup front and rear on my '73 and it is not detectably harsher than my '87 with stock bushings. Plus, the Elephant setup does not squeak like the plastic bushings. I have no idea how long the Elephant bushings will last, but with proper lubrication they look like they will go a long time.

HarryD · 12-09-2005, 10:31 PM

Jerry,

When I did my suspension last winter, I went with Neatrix rear bushes. I considered other products this seemed to offer the best peformance for a guy who drives his car on the street (wife and 2 kids) and autocrosses regularly. The ride is not at all harsh and they were not too hard to install (getting the torsion bars out was the tough part). Besides looking here, I discussed my options with Steve Weiner and the elephant product, while offering a superior design for the track was deemed (by me) too expensive for my needs.

If you are going to do your rears, check your fronts as well and any other suspension work (other bushes, shocks, turbo tie rods, ball joints etc). You will need to pay for an align/corner balance/(maybe) lowering anyway, why pay more than once.

RoninLB · 12-09-2005, 10:53 PM

stock front bushings don't last.

my ft & rear Welt bush are too harsh for LA according to my street racer/ 911 owner brother.

afaik.. Welt and Elephant bush are very close the same harshness. My Welt are 60k mi and still no slop.

rfuerst911sc · 12-10-2005, 04:23 AM

I recently pulled the trigger on suspension parts purchase from our host and the classifieds. I found some polygraphite front bushings that had been modified with zerk fittings and grooves cut into them so they can be greased. For the rear I purchased Elephant bushings. I have not installed them yet but I am hoping the ability to add grease on both ends of the car will add years to the life of the bushings and keep everything quiet and moving smoothly.

Dixie · Dixie's Garage

I installed Netrix in the rear of my 911 last February. Since then I've traversed about 3,500 mostly-track miles. To my surprise, they appear to be holding up well.

I'll add that I'm waiting patiently for Hayden to make up some WEVO spring plates for G50 Carreras. He says they're coming.

Jim Richards · 12-10-2005, 09:11 AM

Jerry, mine have been holding up well for 3 years now.

pwd72s · 12-10-2005, 09:44 AM

Thanks for the heads up, Ron. Yes, I'm running neatrix rears. No problems at all, but they've only been in for a year. Frankly, at first, I thought I wanted to go the complete elephant bushings route. Jeff Gamroth of ROTHSPORT talked me out of it. His thinking is that Elephant Bushings are superb for the track, but pretty harsh for the street, plus my "original" car sure wouldn't look original with them. I still argued for Elephant...then the dim light bulb came on in my skull. I mean, who should I trust to know more about suspension here? Well intended guys on posting boards, or the crew chief of the championship winning ALMS GT car? So, I got smart, said to Jeff: "Jeff, just make it a street suspension that you'd enjoy driving." It's now a little over a year later, and I'm damned glad I said that!

Chuck Moreland · 12-10-2005, 10:03 AM

Paul, I'm glad you have a solution that is working well for you. Neatrix can provide a good ride on the street, longevity issues aside.

Since you did your refresh, Jeff has gained much experience with PolyBronze. I don't pretend to speak for him, but I think he might offer a different opinion of the product today.

pwd72s · 12-10-2005, 12:23 PM

Chuck, that could very well be. In no way did I mean my post as a slam of your excellent products. You have too many ecstatic customers for me to think they are anything but excellent.

Like I said, I almost went with your bushings. At the time, I decided to go with Jeff's thinking. No complaints so far...and boy am I hoping that was the last time for a suspension overhaul.

RoninLB · 12-10-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwd72s
In no way did I mean my post as a slam of your excellent products.

ditto

when the time comes I'm doing Elephant bushings.

HarryD · 12-10-2005, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwd72s
Chuck, that could very well be. In no way did I mean my post as a slam of your excellent products. You have too many ecstatic customers for me to think they are anything but excellent. Like I said, I almost went with your bushings. At the time, I decided to go with Jeff's thinking. No complaints so far...and boy am I hoping that was the last time for a suspension overhaul.

Chuck,

Likewise for me. Steve pushed me pretty hard to use your product in the rears but in the end, I did not see enough advantage and my wallet won. If I was to replace my Front Bushes, the choice is clearly Elephant. In terms of base quality and cost performance, all other choices pale in comarison.

Dixie · Dixie's Garage

I never went with the Polybronze for two reasons. Neither of which should reflect poorly on Chuck.

I could not get any kind of long-term durability feedback. The product is rather new, and Chuck understandably does not have the R&D budget to simulate how they hold up for 50,000 miles.
I could not get any info on what alloys were employed to alleviate my concerns regarding longevity.

Bottom line, I wasn't willing to part with the money needed to purchase the Polybronze bushings based on the info available. Rather, I spent more and bought new OEM components as available.

YMMV...

GMR911 · 12-10-2005, 02:24 PM

Thanks for all the great responses from every one. This is truly an issue for much debate. I wished Porsche was diligent enough in the begining to design a bushing that could replaced instead of having to purchase new a-arms or swing plates, if original is prefered. It would also be nice if there was a company that could refurbish the pieces with rubber bushings such as the factory did, for reasonable cost. I am still leaning towards my new front a-arms and netrix rears idea, but Chucks products is right there also. Just plain confused. Again, ride quality and longevity are the main concerns as the price is about the same either way. Thanks again Jerry

pwd72s · 12-10-2005, 05:32 PM

Jerry, you expressed your concerns well. Me? I also factored in my age of 62. Hell, odds are I won't be here by the time this debate is settled, because it needs a lot of time to get definitive and time proven results. So, for myself only, I hope I made the correct decision. And the beat goes on...

Evans, Marv · 12-10-2005, 08:01 PM

I installed Chuck's polybronze front & back. Although I haven't driven the car yet, since it has a ways to go before finished, I didn't think there was a better logical way to go. My thoughts were that a rubber product would begin deteriorating as soon as it began to be used - albiet it would take a long time. But I couldn't see how the polybronze wouldn't last just as long, given the fact that it had plastic sleeves around the bearings. Also I liked the idea of lubing the bearings and the fact they rotated rather than deformed.