If you're cruising along and a beautiful woman piloting a 993 passes you, are you more intrigued than if she were driving an 88 turbo?

Without a doubt, I would be more intrigued by the turbo specimen because that is a MAN'S CAR.

You could buy a 993 with a Tiptronic.

Do you ever get stuck in traffic in Montana?

I love them both. But in the future, a good 993 will be much easier to find than a good 930. That is my golden rule. Always go for the product that is more scarce. And scarcity in the automotive world seldom reverses itself. For me, it's a no brainer. The 930. Four speed too. Yeah, I love the four speed. Feels as tough as the transmission on a Peterbuilt. That's because it is. Shifts easy too. Use first gear in the hairpins and you will never see lag out of a turn. Just make sure it is in good shape. Great around traffic too since you only use two gears on most city streets. I have driven every form of 911 at 11/10ths, including some highly modded 993tt's and 996tt's, but for me there is only one car that gives the feeling of boost that leaves you no doubt that there is a big turbo in there. A turbo car should feel like a turbo car. That is the 930. Buy one, put in a K27, a one bar wastegate spring, a better intercooler, maybe some headers and maybe a 934 dump pipe and go on your way shooting some flames. Putting on an early 930 16x8 in the front like in the picture below looks cool too. If you want much better AC, remove the tiny condenser in the rear and install an underbelly condenser. You will be glad you went with a 930 for there is no car like it. They don't make cars like that any more. I am surprised that there isn't hair growing underneath the things because cars don't come more macho than a 930.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1085530326.jpg

sorry. I'm in a better mood today.

Sincerely,

Mike

I will add that some of the best times I have had in over a decade of track driving were in merely stock 930's and 964 turbos. Going through a sweeper with the foot to the floor, boost at maximum, limited slip holding on for dear life with the steering wheel pointing to the left while the car is turning right, is what life is all about. Boy are they fun. Especially when modified.

I need to go see if my car is sporting hair under the fenders...

Just my opinion Leland...

The more I look at the 993, the less it appeals to me. Id much rather have the 930, Classic 911 look. As far as engines are concerned, the Turbo appeals to me for its uniqueness....

993s, are just looking like an in-between car to me as far as styling. My next Porsche will be a late model 996 or possibly a 997. Personally speaking, I already own the Classic...and the logical step is to get the latest style, which is something new all together.

So, this applies to 993s not being all that in my eyes due to lack of uniqueness... of course most others will disagree. Go for the 930.

When I was looking for a daily driver, I started looking at the 993. I test drove a few and was pretty sure a C4 would do the trick (rain and snow too). But then I got behind the wheel of a DE instructor's modified 930. Whoa! The 993 felt like something my dad would drive. The 930 satisfied the kid in me. Back then, 993s were up around $50K and the clean and low mileage 930s were under $40K.

I've probably spent $10K in mods (headers, muffler, K27, tires). The main reason I don't drive it daily now is that the A/C sucks. But its nothing that $1000 won't cure. The 4 speed tranny is great, especially in traffic. Since 1st gear runs up over 50 mph, you could conceivably drive in traffic without shifting at all. The 4 speed isn't good for stoplight races, but with so much power on tap, you don't need instant response off the line (don't believe me, ask the maserati spyder driver in my neighborhood what he thinks). What you do have to worry about is oil temps on hot days when in traffic.

I've had my 930 for 3 1/2 years, putting on nearly 30K miles and the only things I replaced as part of maintenance on my 930 are fluids (tranny, brake, and oil), brake rotors and pads, and tires. Other than that, all the money goes towards mod$.

VERY well said! (and a great pic too!) I had been thinking about a 993TT but you and Tyson have made me reconsider it. The 930 has to be considered one of the best examples of a 911. It is very true to the original in both design and driving experience, but it also has the performance (modded) to keep up with some of the fastest cars on the road. I don't think you can beat it, so long as you have a nice daily driver.

Plus, curves just don't get better than THIS:


http://www.owners-gallery.com/uploads/930%20rear632.JPG

Josh, the same thing happened to me when I drove a 996TT with a lot of mods the other day. Since I had been driving another friend's 80 930 with the usual mods for around maybe 400hp, the modded TT felt boring. While it had a lot of boost, it came so early there was no turbo feel. I also hate the lack of turbo sound with twins. There was also none of that exponential rpm movement where the needle goes faster for every thousand rpms. The needle just went fast all the way through. Honestly I was bored. It felt like a Viper. Or like my mom's chipped A4 with a lot more power. While nice in an A4, not so much on what is supposed to be a 911. Too easy. No challenge. I just don't like twin turbos. I would take the 993TT because the looks alone make up for the extra turbo. But on the 996TT you don't have that advantage. It just does not look as good. But the real intersting part is that the 996TT with close to 200hp more could not pull away from the 930. Never underestimate what a 930 can do with close to or around 400hp on tap. But forget about the numbers. It's the delivery that counts. The off the charts hertbeat and white knuckles that come with it. Again, I have driven it all and, to me, nothing excites like a 930. Excitement for dollar, nothing compares. And then there is the sound of of that exhaust which only a single turbo can provide. The only problem is that modding 930s can quickly become like a heroin addiction.

Oh, and I almost forgot. The guy with the modded 996TT, after driving the other modded 930, is seriously considering selling it to pick up a 930 to monkey with. He was also bit by the distinctive 930 boost delivery.

Josh, can we swap cars sometime? Just wondering if a 930 might suit me;).

Ed... beautiful car

964... the last Turbo able to light up the rear tyres in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear !!

If the car is for a daily driver - get a 964 Turbo
If it's a weekend toy - get a beautiful 930.

my 2 pence....

I've been having a similar dilemma. They are close enough in price and very close in desirability. The FEEL vs. MODERNIZATION is always a factor, but in this case it's a "positive" for each of the cars. Unless you have unlimited funds, you also can't be too choosy. I figure I would go for the first clean example that I find (930 or 993), or additionally, first clean one w/ the color/options I want.

On the other hand, the more time goes by, the harder it will become to find a clean 930 (on a budget). Whereas, a 993 is not as "old" of a car, so you can still find a clean one down the road.

Then when you see both EXACTLY how you want them, all reason goes out the window.

Enjoy the search. Sounds like fun.

edit: Someone in classifieds is selling a nice 930, looks clean except for the 993 mirrors on it.

hence the addition of 5 link rear suspension on the 993;)

I thought the goal of chassis refinement and development was to minimize wheelspin?

Chris

Couple of things.

1) I would trade my 930 for a 993TT or 996TT. I'm sure both of those can be made as hairy as the 930. If I could afford one of them, I'd have already made the switch.

2) Richard, I'd be happy to let you take my 930 around the block. It'd be an eye opener for sure. You'll appreciate your 993 that much more for what it does so well. But you might also wish for some of the bare-knuckle attitude that the 930 has. It s a tough trade off. That's where I think the 993TT fits in. You know where to find me. ;)

Nope. Can't take a awd car with abs (let alone PMS, if the 996 tt has it) and two smaller turbos and make it as "hairy" as a 930. You can make it godawful fast and powerful, but not as hairy. Not really even close.

Nope from me as well. Drove one last month with around 600hp. Not even close in thrills. In fact the experience was very strange. Drove the piss out of it and when I came back my knuckles weren't white, I wasn't thanking god for being alive, and my heartbeat was still slow. My SC actually scares me more if you can belive that. Sure, you could put 800hp in there for the price a decent 930, but really, what's the point. No a twin turbo setup will drown out almost all the turbo feel out of a turbo car. Then there is the awd. For me, the most forgiving nature I can take in a turbo 911 is the 964 turbo with the 20/100 limited slip that it came with. For me any more forgiving than that is too much. But, and I stress but, the beaty of the 993 turbo makes up for it. But the 996 turbo forget it. Not just because it does not look as good, but neither does the interior. And I hate the feel of that cable shift.

Ive had a 930, a C2T, and a 993. If I had to pick again, the C2T first, no question, then the 993, then 930, for everyday or alot of street use, if more of a track car, the 930, then 993.

Bruce and Ed are right - I am lucky to own both a modified 930 (405 RWHP; 440 RWTQ) and a modified 993TT (estimated 520 HP at the crank). The 993 will pull on the 930 once you get to the triple digits, but before that I think the 930 has the advantage (the 4 speed transmission mated to a very responsive 3.4 modified motor ghives you a huge power band). In fact I think the 930 would win in the 1/4 mile - at least per the engine's builder Stephen Kaspar, who claims a mid 11s in the quarter with a car set up the same as mine.

But the real difference is the feel - the 993 is so refined in comparison and there are no white knuckle moments as Ed said. Every time I get on my 930 my heart rate doubles, whereas the 993TT is pretty matter of fact at 150 MPH (at that speed in my 930 I feel like I am about to leave the ground).

I am likely selling one of these cars in the near future and guess which one it will be -

Bets, anyone?

A 3.6 C2 Turbo with a backdated body to 79-89 would be just perfect. I would seriously consider a 3.3 C2 Turbo in the price range you are looking at. They have all the visceral feelings of a 930 but coilovers, more power, and more comforts.