Nothing stopping you using individual hoses and making a spider like system. However you will need a mechanism to clamp the injector in place. This is especially important on the turbo where the manifold pressure is trying to push the injector out. I imagine you could build brackets across from the intake bolts above each injector.
MSD makes an injector clamp system, it requres 3/4 bungs which have a lip to hold a plate, the top of the injector has a threaded cap with another plate, two bolts span the distance between the top and bottom plate on either side of the injector. This particular setup ends up costing about $300 and you end up requiring more fuel line and fittings.
However, aluminum fuel rail costs only $12 per foot and is an easy material to work with,so notching it to solve the clearance issues won't be very difficult.

So Magic930, you think the Powerhaus injector blocks for $600 that you're going to have to modifiy to fit the electronic injectors is a better deal than the poorly crafted $350 injectors? Pat William will supply the blocks and fuel rails in a rather elegant solution, but at a rather expensive $1420. Can't we fabricate something that is more cost affective yet still elegant???

You have to admit the $350 blocks are extremely crude and clearly not machined, I wonder if any 2 blocks are even the same!

I believe an elegant block and rail system can be made for near $600 including fittings and fuel line, if I didn't think it could be done then I would just buy the Pat W. setup. I paid $75 each for some Aluminum PwrHse CIS blocks from a local porscheshop who happened to have a set... I was hesitant to pay even that much considering I have to spend time modifying them. Who is quoting $600?

I believe that was the quote I got from Powerhaus when I called them!? That has been about a year ago, so maybe my memory or the price has changed. I would have been far more tempted at the $500 range than at the $600. At the time, 600 was just excessive I thought.

I agree, they don't even appear to be machined! There must surely be a better solution. I have contacted a few folks who have mills or if I can generate a design, they will quote a price for almost any quantity.

The design is the only issue. I don't want to pull my injection system apart right after I have rebuilt it and got it running again. You wouldn't happen to be willing to share one of your old injector block, would you? That way I could get a design together and see what it would cost to have blocks milled.

Here is a picture of the PowerHouse CIS block. I have already removed about 1/8" of material at the red arrow all the way down to allow room for the injector body.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083424105.jpg

What do you mean by clearly not machined? I see marks from an end mill on the blocks. What do you think he used to make those blocks-a belt sander???

The difference in the blocks:
powerhaus - CNC machined
goingsuperfast - machined by hand

As long as they are machined to decent tolerance, I don't see any reason why the "crude" blocks won't work. They aren't pretty, but the engine doesn't care about cosmetics.

Email the fellow. Perhaps he can suggest a solution for a fuel rail. jürgen

Fact, couldn't you just dress them up a little at home with a belt sander for the extra $250? Maybe I just haven't succumbed to the price issues of a Porsche yet, but $600 for "pretty" blocks is kind of pricey. I'm with Turbo6bar that as long as tolerances are there, you should be OK. Not that a CIS setup is beautiful in any old world sort of "weber" way.

To me the cost of the blocks are a matter of value and the functionality they provide. This has to be weighed especially in light of the cost of other solutions and the cost to make them suitable for the function they are to perform. I have not heard of anyone who has purchased these blocks yet, so I have little ability to judge whether they will work in the application they are intended for. By appearances, which is all I have at this point, it is not a certain proposition. It appears that there is significant variation in the sizes and construction of each block. It appears that not much attention has been paid to the air passages. I did not see on the web site where they had been mounted in engine and run.

If I had some substantiation that they would work for their intended purposes, $350 might be reasonable. Since I have nothing to substantiate whether they will work, and I don't know how much time and $$$ it would take to make them work, I have only the asthetics to make a decision. $350 is a lot, for and experiment and something that is not even pretty.

Heres a few progress shots using the aluminum blocks. First pic shows the EFI injector hole and how the injector fits. The idea is to get the injector as far in the hole as possible to direct the best spray directly at the valve. So the second picture shows the location of the pintle cap from the bottom, it should work nicely from here.
The third pic shows a mockup hard wood rail... I needed to find out the angle from vertical of the injectors. I drilled holes at 1 thru 5 degrees and confirmed that with these blocks the injectors end up with a 5 degree slant. The last picture shows how the bottom of the rail will need to be notched to clear the intake.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083641473.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083641503.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083641530.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1083641553.jpg

You sure work fast, Magic. This is great stuff - keep it coming. :)

Could somebody tell me if there is any clearance at all between the passenger side of the intake and the AC mount or Compressor, Intereseted in the point under the red "MAY 3" in the last picture above. Is there any room for a rail end with fitting here? A picture would be helpful. Thanks

Magic930, How are you coming with your fuel rails? What stock are you using?

Not much progress this week. And I doubt I'll get to them this weekend. I bought 2ft of rail from azmarine. It's your basic "upside down U" shaped aluminum stock. I have been investigating fittings and rail design and trying to decide the best way to go. Curiously the PWR setup is a single linked rail system which I think means there might be a pressure drop at cylinder #3 ( meaning it could run lean). Most performance dual rail systems split the supply, branching off to each rail then use a dual inlet pressure regulator. Another problem to solve is at which point to convert from metric fittings to some easily available AN fittings. I have pulled the accumulater and your left with 2-3 places where you must get conversion fittings, or cut them and use barb fittings.

My understanding is that Pat uses a sequential injection system. As I am sure you know this will in most cases, at low RPM, eliminate the pressure drop problem. At Higher the injectors are pretty much constantly firing anyway, so you have rather a "fog" just as with batch injection. If you run a high enough pressure, and have adequetly sized injectors, starvation in any one cylinder should not be an issue.

I thought everyone converted to AN fittings at the fuel rail feeds. That would seem to imply that you only had to have conversion fittings at the fuel filter outlet. I think TBITZ has the best solution for that though, he has the same issues with the SC.

The pressure drop occurs because of the length of the line and bends in the line. Fuel rails in series create a distance of ~4 ft from the first injector to the last which when you include bends could potentially be a different pressure at injector #3 compared to #6, sequential or not less fuel will be delivered at #3. With a dual feed system the distance where there might be differential pressure is between #6 and #4 and #3 to #1; a distance of less than 1ft in a smooth walled rail with no bends. It would be great if someone out there familiar with fluid dynamics could do the calculations to show the pressure drop difference between these two designs.

Fittings:
The accumulater needs to be removed which means you are left with a supply line that has a 12mm female on it, the bottom of the stock fuel filter requires a male fitting, it is possible however to swap the top brass fitting to the bottom on the fuel filter and then that connection is taken care of. Out the top of the filter you could then remove the brass fitting and put in a male male 14mm to 6AN or 8AN, then go to the left rail or to a Y fuel block to feed each rail independently, through the rails to a pressure regulater, and then to the return. The return needs a 6AN to female 12mm ball type fitting(hard to locate), or 6AN to barb if your willing to cut the line.

Here are a few pics of the right side rail. Clearance was less of an issue than I thought only about 3mm of material needed to be removed at the tight spots. This was done easily with a tiny dremel drum sander (at red arrows). The rail also fit beneath the large two holed bracket on the intake without being modified.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1084337789.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1084337813.jpg

Magic, I'm not sure if you got the pic you wanted or not? It's a tough shot but here's what I got.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1084341755.jpg

Your rail looks great! From the end of your rail you have 1 inch until you hit the compressor, so you should have room for a fuel fitting if your planning for one.

I could not find azmarine listed anywhere. Would you happen to have a URL or phone number for them? Thanks!

89turbomike, Thanks for the picture and measurement. I may wait to tap this end until I am reassembling the engine just to be sure... 1" may be tight and I have a little room to cut this rail back if needed.

Strygaldwir,
Sorry I messed up the name.
www.azspeed-marine.com
They sell rail by the foot at $12, note the inside diameter of this rail is 9/16 which will tap to 3/8 NPT. Note in pictures the top of the rail is ribbed.

Another place to get rail is www.rossmachineracing.com, his rail is $10ft and has an inside diameter of 1/2 inch.

Both places will custom machine the rail for you at a price.

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