Broken head stud and now this!!!

[rzepko6194]

Got my engine back from the rebuilder to fix a broken head stud, I reinstalled it myself, started it up and heard LOTS OF NOISE!!!! Sounded like loose valves. I called up the rebuilder and he dispatched one of his mechanics. His mechanic determined that the cam timing was off. The shop is now dispatching a flat bed and will fix the timing.

Is it possible that there was permanent damage done to the valves? The engine was not run for more than 30 seconds and it wasn't revved over 1500 rpm. The engine runs fine but it's very noisy (probably the valves hitting the pistons). The shop promises to perform a leakdown test to be sure the valves are ok. Would a leakdown test determine this?

Thanks.

PS. I just noticed that this is my 100th post and now I'm a SENIOR member. whohoo!

[john walker's workshop]

cam timing can be "off", and still be quiet. if it was way off, and valves were contacting the pistons, even one second of running could damage something. maybe a tensioner isn't working, hopefully.

[yelcab1]

One revolution of the engine, even on a stand, is all it takes to do damage. That sounds bad.

[rzepko6194]

The shop just reported back that one cam was off by 3 degrees and the other by 5. I assume that this would just have caused the engine to be rough running and down on power. I can't imagine that this would have caused noisy valves. Would the valves have been crashing into the pistons if the timing was just off by this amount?

Does it sound like these guys feeding me a line?

[Early_S_Man]

Jp,

Yep, sounds like a definite line of BS! Probably [hopefully] just valves maladjusted, as in not adjusted at ALL ...

Your engine uses the same cam profiles as 3.0 Carreras, and SCs ... and three different timing settings were used over the years by the factory! Your setting is the 'middle-of-the-road' setting spec, so there were one 3° retarded from your setting, and another 3° advanced from your setting ... i.e., no noises and properly running engine 3° either side of your engine's 'nominal' setting!

Tell the shop to quit the BS!

[sammyg2]

If and when you let them get to the leak down test, be sure and witness it in person. They scare me and I'm way over here.

[rzepko6194]

Thanks for advice, guys. I'll be sure to "witness" the leakdown when they do it.

[Early_S_Man]

JP,

One important thing to watch for when watching the leakdown test is ... be very, very certain there is ZERO, nada, no movement whatsoever at the engine pulley when the pressurized air is applied to each cylinder! If there is movement, the tech isn't doing it right, and all of the results are useless!

[rzepko6194]

Ok, now I need to vent!!!!!!

A quick overview: A local shop replaced a broken head stud, all of them actually, and screwed up the cam timing. They fixed the timing and did a leakdown test to see if the valves were ok. They claim 2% leakdown accross the board. I already have an appointment with another garage to verify this.

I get the car back yesterday evening. The shop promised it would be done in a day or two but that was two weeks ago. Whatever. I also had them do a lowering, to European height, while they were correcting the valve timing.

I noticed that the car seemed a bit low in the rear. A quick measure showed both front sides at 25.5" and the rears at 24.5/24.75". Hmmm, seems a bit low in the back. I guess they ignored my note stating that the Bilsteins were brand new and they should put some mileage on it before lowering. Worse yet, one front reads -1 degree camber, the other 0. The rear camber reads -1.5 and -3.0!

I did some more checking and found the following:

a small ding in the oil pipe, with tell tail yellow paint from the lift, near the front oil cooler.

one muffler strap incorrectly installed and just hanging in space.

half the rear tin screws were in just a few threads.

2 air cleaner clips off (the rears of course)

clamp missing on one of the blower air tubes

1 screw missing on the plastic engine shroud

It appears that the throttle is not opening all the way. I asked them to check it, but they apparently didn't.

I asked them to check the CO. Don't see it on the bill and the two mechanics who delivered it had no idea of this was done. Probably wasn't.

Worse yet, it appears that there is a leak in the tensioner feeds. They probably didn't bother to put in new crush washers when redoing this.

Oh, now it gets better. Looks like the breather cover is leaking. It wasn't before, but I had them replace the gasket just to play it safe. My mistake.

After tightening up all the loose stuff this morning, I take it out for a spin. I start to notice a clattering after about a mile. Now it's getting worse and the idle is starting to get lumpy. I would guess that an adjuster has come loose and I've got to get it back to my garage before the nut comes off.

Now what do I do? The garage is closed until Monday. Do I try to get some money back and have someone else fix this? These guys come highly recommended. I can't image so many screw ups. Maybe thier good mechanics quit.

Any advice (or sympathy) would be greatly appreciated!!!

[nostatic]

they've had two bites at the apple...no way I'd take it back to that shop. Find a real shop, take it there, document the issues (especially what the next shop finds), then ask for your money back from the first shop. If they say no, go off the small claims court.

[Danskman]

Way over the top on poor quality workmanship. One oversight maybe... a laundry list, no way.

I would, however, be sure to take the car back and point these issues out to the shop owner. If he has any integrity, he'd be apologizing, fixing it right FOC, and detailing the car like it's going to a concours. If you don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling from him, I'd do EXACTLY as nostatic says.

[350HP930]

Lots of bad shops are highly recommended cause people don't know any better.

After I bought my car most of the repairs I did involved repairing the screw ups committed by the shop that did most of the work on it before I got it.

That shop was also a highly recommended shop in the area where I used to live.

[scottb]

Take it to another shop and have them give you an idea of what's wrong, and what can be attributable to the incompetence of the first shop. Try to negotiate a deal with the first shop for a full or partial refund. They'll likely refuse. If you trust/like the second shop, have them do the repairs and carefully document what they believe the first shop screwed up. As Nostatic said....next stop, small claims court!

Sorry for your hassles. Let us know how it turns out.

[hoosierdaddy]

JP
Did you pay with a credit card ? If you did call and dispute the charges until you get the car fixed at another shop and then come to terms with the first shop . They may try and take you to small claims court but that usually doesn't work in there favor in these kind of situations .
Jim

[yelcab1]

THis is why you should learn how to do all of this yourself.

[rzepko6194]

Guys, thanks for the helpful advice.

I'm still not sure how to approach this, however. I could put a stop payment on the check I just wrote out yesterday. This was to cover the lowering, turbo tie rods and alignment. Another shop could probably do the leakdown test, valve adjustment and reset the ride height/alignment for the amount paid to the first. The only problem with this approach is that the first shop will probably not do a thing for me if the valves turn out to be bent. Then it would have to go to court, which could get ugly and expensive!

Any advice from the repair shop owners out there?

[Gunter]

Don't let yourself be blackmailed by the shop. They screwed up several times over by the sound of it. Stop payment and contact the owner directly and inform him that you have no more confidence in his shop and that you are going to someone else. Put down all your complaints in writing and send them a registered letter about the issues, especially the possible damage to the engine and your intention to get a refund or go to court. They will try and coax you back in but I would stay firm and demand a re-payment. Keep track of all the dates, and whom you have spoken with at this shop. Court action is an inconvenience but less hassle and frustration than continueing with this shop. Been there, done that, the court sees through the BS. Be firm and take your baby elsewhere for an evaluation and the right treatment.

[rzepko6194]

bump

[thunderdenton]

Be very carefull of canceling a check or credit card payment with a garage.

Not sure of the laws in CT, but here in Texas an unscrupulase shop can and will put a mechanic's lean on the car. That $2000 dispute can cost you a $100,000 car!

In Texas it is best to take them to small claims than it is to cancel payment.

Thunder

[Gunter]

Good point about the lean issue. Still, I would not let them do any more work and, if necessary, go to Small Claim. It's frustrating. Good luck.