MSD into a '69 911S

[dhoward]

Also, that little rubber insulating grommet rots and can allow contact to the dizzy body.....

[Early_S_Man]

au contrare, Terry ...

As recently as Last Friday 14 May 2004 ... you posted the following thread supposedly trying to troubleshoot & fix your factory Bosch CDI igniton ... in which you ranted and raved about the Haynes manual diagrams ... the supposed errors in the '65 Pelican factory wiring diagram ... and clearly demonstrated your lack of knowledge of CDI systems by expecting to see +12 Volts on the 'hot' side oif the coil with the ignition on ...

No spark.... wierd problem.

You posted no pics, or any test results after I posted liks to the correct color schematic for your car, a simplified schematic for your car's CDI & MFI wiring, AND a link to a thread to extensive CDI troubleshooting documentation from Bosch!!!

The info I posted would have been too, too much work ... so you simply opted out, gave up and flip-flopped to Plan B ... this thread ... after deciding to throw a bunch of money at your project for a 'quick fix' ...

Now you seem to have distributor isssues that were apparently you actual problem all along ... but you can't quite seem to comprehend how to proceed along that troubleshooting tree, either!

I was wrong ... you weren't expecting help via ESP ... you are expecting a miracle of Biblical proportions!!! Grow up, and quit acting like a three-year old throwing a temper tantrum!

[dhoward]

Warren, are you suggesting he should buy a turbo-look?

[Tspringer]

Warren.... I'll try this again. I DID utilize the diagram you posted. I DID track the wires and attempt to diagnose where the problem was. I got nowhere. In the diagram you posted in that thread, the 3 wire connected part labelled 2. as a ballast unit is not present on the electrical panel of my car. I do have a 5 wire unit, but the colors do not match. Nor do they match the other schematic you posted a link too. I thought I had the correct part identified and it was just slightly different.... but I was in error. This is not your fault and I did not post all the details of my efforts. I was focused on getting the CDI to work because I thought I would have to wait a week to get an MSD unit shipped to me, but the local NOPI store had it in stock....

I do wish I could post some pics as I know that would help a ton, but as murphy would have it my digital camera crapped out. I will see about borrowing my fathers camera, he is going to lend a hand on this later today (provided I can escape from my real job...)

I am going over all the other materials you posted a link too. I know you really are trying to help, heck I have seen all the help you have given to me and many others at great time sacrifice to yourself and I really do appreciate it.

Ill post more later, hopefully with pics.


Terry

[Tspringer]

It runs! Not well.... but thats another story

It was inside the dizzy. Very puzzeling but it finally tracked down to poor connection at the points. I took them out, cleaned them up good, checked all the other distributor connections and such and she fired up.

Thanks for the help guys... did turn out to be a simple problem. Probably would have run with the CD box.... oh well, as I said an MSD upgrade was in the plans anyhow. Now I will send my spare tach out to be rebuilt to MSD friendly specs.

Still cant drive quite yet.... oil leak from the new front cooler, Im hoping its just a connection. Also the lower front a-arms at the ball joint are rubbing on the front wheels. I have raised spindle RSR style struts from SRP.... have a call in to them to see what they think.

Terry


PS Warren..... you were right..... I was wrong. No problem admitting it!

[Early_S_Man]

I'm glad you found the problem, Terry!

Sounds like your distributor needs cleaning and checking per the following thread ... it has all of the pertinent specs for 2.4/2.7 distributors:

distributor lube...

No hard feelings ...

[Andy Ring]

Good news! From what I hear, you should drive it like you stole it, but not because you hate it--hopefully this will be the beginning of a wonderful friendship betwen you and your 911 (and things are looking up between you and Warren too). I have to go wipe my eyes now...

[jluetjen]

You should consider swapping your points for a Crane pointless system when the budget allows. That way you'll never have to worry about this problem (or setting the dwell) ever again.

[Early_S_Man]

John,

Are you using an MSD tach adapter, or does the Crane unit drive the tach OK?

How about the Speed Switch ... is it still attached to the same pickup point as the tach?

I am wondering if a 100 Ohm - 120 Ohm 5 Watt resistor connected to +12 Volts and points or Crane unit wouldn't drive the '71 thru '77 [point-driven] tachs and Speed Switch just fine without the MSD tach adapter???

[jluetjen]

Warren;
I needed to use the MSD Tach Adaptor (MSD PN 8910) and per the Crane documentation add a ballast resister (Chrysler style two terminal ballast resistor such as Echlin ICR23 or Wells CR107) from the MSD's red wire (the original coil + wire) to to +12V (in my case at the fuse block).

I also needed to use MSD's diode 1 on the MSD's white wire (the original coil - wire). These are all marked on the drawing.



This set-up worked great for my original '69E Tach as well as the 10K RPM tach that I have in now.

[Andy Ring]

Is the Crane better/different from the Pertronix unit? Is this something you'd suggest as a good upgrade? I've heard mixed things about the Pertronix, but nothing about the Crane.

[Tspringer]

Andy....

I have been reading a good bit in the archives lately to learn about MFI as my car is going to need a good bit of tuning on that front and I want to learn to do it on my own. The more research I do on this site.... the more in awe I am of Warrens knowledge. He clearly has a freaking Doctorate degree in early Porsche 911. As a matter of fact.... I believe we should start a movement to have him modify his signature and put Dr. in front of his name. Its mind boggling to me.

Friendship with the car is a different matter. Hearing it run went a long ways toward making me feel better no doubt. But I couldnt drive it. See another thread on my oil pressure concerns as well.

The raised strut spindles I got from SRP were botched. They raised the spindle too much and they are rubbing on the wheels. This will require the entire front suspension to come back apart, the struts to go back to SRP in CA for re-modification to the correct height and then re-assembly. At best another 2 week delay. Oh well... at this point these types of freaky problems are so commonplace on this project I am just laughing it off. Rich at SRP is going to pay all the shipping and turn them around in 24 hours for me. He was very apologetic and I really couldnt be mad at them, nobody is perfect and God knows I have made my share of simple mistakes.

While the suspension is down, I am going to take your advice and upgrade the distributor away from points. So.... what are the advantages or disadvantages between a pertronix or crane system? Which is easier to install and work with an MSD? I am also going to get the correct magnecore plug wires.

Thanks again to everyone!


Terry

[jgporsche]

I went with the pertronix, easy and works fine. Make sure the wires on the inside of the dizzy are tucked in. Did get a little plastic rubbed off one of the wires.