1980 SC - What to look for.

[MysticLlama]

Hey guys,

I haven't been browsing for a few months while I saved up some $$, so I'm trying to refresh my memory of what to look for on an SC.

I called the owner about the car, and he answered most of the questions I would have asked before I even had a chance, has had 8 911s, and seemed to be very knowledgeable about the car (vs. someone that just bought it cheap and is selling it because they don't "get it", he just has a newer one now)

Here are the quick and dirty specs
1980 SC
Dark Blue - repainted 6-7 years ago, receipt for paint is $8k
124k miles show, but speedo was broken during the last service, he figures it has about 128k.
Has the Carerra chain tensioner update
Has the H4 headlight update
A/C is removed, but he still has all parts for it saved out that will come with the car

Are there any particular questions I need to ask, I know the tensioner is the big one, though it sounds like it was done recently, are there any ill effects if it goes for a long time, or is it just a bang you're dead thing once it goes, and once it's changed you're fine?

How hard will it, or might it be for me to fix the speedometer, what could have busted it while fiddling in the engine compartment? How hard is the A/C to put back on?

He says it doesn't leak any oil, doesn't smoke, and he says it starts right up when he comes back from being in Germany half the year.

Unfortunately it's in southern Oregon, and I'm in Seattle, so I won't be able to see it, my mom is down there and is going to go check it out though, but she doesn't really know much about it.

It did make me feel better after talking to him on the phone for 25-30 minutes, he definately knows the car vs. just trying to talk it up to sell it, because he knew all the differences between the model years and the ones he's had, etc.

Thanks in advance for all the help, it was very helpful the last time through, I just wasn't able to get that particular car. That was a Carerra, so now I have to educate myself more on the SC.

[TerryH]

You seem to have a good idea already. A pre-purchase inspection(PPI) is highly recommended before plunking down the cash. Broken head studs are everyones worst nightmare and that's especially true for new owners. Leakdown and/or compression tests are a major part of the PPI also.

Odometers wear out. It can be repaired or replaced. I'd run a Carfax on any questionable odometer. If the car is too old for Carfax, check his receipts for odometer readings.

You really need to fly or drive down and see the car. If you can't afford to get to the car, you probably can't afford to own a 911. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't know if I'd buy a car on my mom's recommendation.

Good luck! Take your time and be thorough!

[nostatic]

You should buy Denis' car (speeder). Totally sorted car. But his paint isn't new, so that depends on where your priorities are.

As for mechanicals, if it is at 128K, you may or may not be close to a rebuild, most likely for a broken head stud. Just a roll of the dice. Is there a pop-off valve on the air box? If not, that is at least a cheap fix, but can save the air box in case of backfire. When was the clutch last done? How about shocks, brakes, etc? All that figures into the price. You should also have a good shop do a PPI if you're serious.

But if I were in the market, I'd think seriously about Denis' car...

[MysticLlama]

Ah, pop off valve, that's the one I forgot.

Do you guys have a link to Denis' car, and where is it?

I'm going to see if I can find a shop for the PPI, does that normally check for the head studs, or do I need to make sure they check for that specifically? I can probably find a little shop down there, but I'm not sure how to find a *good* one.

There is a huge pile of receipts for the car, including the one where the odometer got broken. The mechanic was supposed to fix it for him, but never did.

I remember now that when that happened he also said the seatbelt light and oil light come on at the same time? I'm guessing that's probably somewhere close to the speedo cable?

I'll fly down to get it if I can get a PPI arranged for it, but it's a really expensive airport, and I don't know that I'd want to blow over $500 on a ticket to there and a PPI unless I REALLY wanted it, and I'm not quite that far yet.

As far as other stuff, clutch was done 18k ago (14k ago according to the OD, 18ish from the estimate), struts are newish (he couldn't read the mileage on that receipt), not sure about when the brakes were last done, I'll ask about that.

[MysticLlama]

Okay, I did find Denis' post about his car.

It is quite a bit more than this one, but I understand the importance of a fully sorted car, so I'm definately going to think about it (and we'll see if he still sells it or not)

Also, I have a Honda that I just paid off that I'll keep to split miles and as my beater so that I won't have to rely on driving the 911 to work everyday just in case. It needs it's share of work too, but it's all consumable/maintenance stuff (brakes, suspension, tune-up/etc.) and it should last a long time yet if it's driven a little less.

On that head stud thing again, do they check to see if they are worn and replace them early, or check to see if one is broken and then you know other stuff is messed up too?

[MysticLlama]

And yet another thing... (I was really tired when I posted, so stuff keeps coming to me, long night last night)

He said that he did something with the hydraulics just recently, and has the receipt for that too.

What's hydraulic on the car besides the brakes, in case it's not that.

[svonkampen]

Hey MysticLlama.......

I'm not an expert......but according to all my books the '81-'83 cars are much more powerful than the 1980. Porsche was neglecting it's 911 in 1980.....

1980 sc 0-60 mph in 7.0sec
1981 sc 0-60 mph in 5.7sec

This is because in 1980 Porsche were thinking about phasing out the 911!!! (crazy krauts), and that the 928 would be the future..........They soon realized the error of their thinking........and gave the 911s made from '81-'83 a serious speed boost.....if your thinking of buying early 80's get a '81-'83.....

Did I get that info right guys?

SvK

[imcarthur]

MysticLlama

Re: PPI

When you 'order' the PPI from an garage, you are the customer, so you have to tell them exactly what to do.

A general Pre Purchase Inspection + compression + leakdown + test drive (to check clutch & tranny) + drop the lower valve covers to check for broken head studs (they will be sitting there or fall out if one or more are broken). If broken, then you run away.

Note that new gaskets + some oil will be needed to put the covers back on. Expect to pay $300 - $400 total including labor. I have learned (the hard way) to ask them to do compression & leakdown first & if there is a problem, button it back up & don't do the rest of the work.

And be prepared to walk away - even after spending $s on the PPI. I have had 2 PPIs crash & burn on 911s that I was prepared (and eager) to buy. I'm out $500 but not facing a $4K + rebuild . . .

Ian

[nostatic]

Originally posted by imcarthur
If broken, then you run away.

I disagree. Instead if the rest of the car is tight, you say, "broken head studs, well that will cost me a lot of money to fix" and offer $5K less than they were asking.

All of these engines are just waiting for a head stud to break, so catching it in a PPI is an opportunity to use it to your advantage.

[imcarthur]

nostatic

You're right, but only if you want to deal with a problem right out of the gate. Some of us want to ramp up slowly. My hope is that I can just buy it & drive it for at least a season before a crisis sets in.

I have another one in for a PPI tomorrow btw. And finally one that is actually owned by someone that knows P-cars . . .

Ian

[Grady Clay]

Why $8K paint? Was there body damage to repair also? Ask the specific question: “Has the car ever been wrecked or had damage to body or suspension?” Get a clear, unequivocal answer.

I agree with nostatic, if everything is OK except head studs, buy it at a discount so you can repair it properly.

The money you spend on an exceedingly through PPI is the best money you will ever spend.

Best,
Grady

[MysticLlama]

I'm going to call around down there tomorrow and see if I can find a good place to do the inspection.

The paint wasn't expensive because of bodywork, I did ask if it had any accidents, rust, dents, etc, and other than a couple of small door dings he says it's always been fine.

I haven't seen it, but he described the paint as a very dark blue metallic, bordering on black in some lights. It sounds like a show worthy paint job, so I can see it running up that high if there was special paint and they did a good job and pulled all the trim off, did the door sills, etc. I've had friends get $5k paint jobs that weren't even the best I've ever seen.

I am concerned about the 0-60 in 7.0 vs. 5.7 though, that's a huge difference, and not likely to be easily made up without a lot of work, it'd be better to just get the faster car in the first place. I'm going to poke around and do some research and see if I can figure that one out.

[K. Roman]

According to C&D 1980 911SC was 0-62: 6.0 seconds. Hope that relieves the concern.

[imcarthur]

Don't worry about the 0-60.

Leffingwell in 911 Buyer's Guide:

1979 6.0 sec
1980 6.0 sec (Car & Driver)
1981 6.7 sec
1982 6.0 sec (Car & Driver)
1983 6.7 sec

Hmmmm. Is the author smokin' sumpthin? Or maybe the journalists didn't have to pay for clutches & the author's smokin' sumpthin. He does tend to repeat himself . . .

From my limited p-car driving experience 0-60 ain't where the magic is. It's anything above 5000 rpm.

Ian

[svonkampen]

imcarthur,

My figures are from a book by Peter Morgan entitled: "Original Porsche 911"

The 1980 7.0sec source is FACTORY
The 1981 5.7sec source is MOTOR

SvK

[svonkampen]

If you really want to be sure, why not shoot Wayne at Pelican an email.....he will have the figures I'm sure........

but 1980 was the year that Porsche neglected the 911 design over the 928.......all 5 of my books speak of this...

SvK

[svonkampen]

"From my limited p-car driving experience 0-60 ain't where the magic is. It's anything above 5000 rpm."

??????????

SvK

[MysticLlama]

After a few searches I did come up with this link:

Specs

Though I'm not sure of the validity, it does lend some credence to the 7.0. But what could they have possibly done between 80 and 81 to make it that much faster with the same engine, tranny, etc.?

I probably won't get to take it to the track much, and I'm a pretty conservative driver as far as breaking the speed limit goes (as in, 70 in a 60 on occasion when traffic is pushing me) I'm just usually not in a hurry.

I do like going through the 35mph twisties at 60 though, and bombing the onramps to 60 or 70 to merge (which I wish other people in WA could figure out instead of merging at 42.5mph)

[svonkampen]

MysticLlama,

A 911 wants to be rev'd way hi.....it loves shifting at 6000rpm..........There's nuthin' like being knocked into the back of your seat ....doin' the 0-60 thang........that is definitely where alot of the magic is.....

SvK

[svonkampen]

weight loss:

1980 weighs 1232kg
1981 weighs 1160kg

horsies:

1980 188bhp
1981 204bhp

SvK