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Porsche Crest 84 Sc Rs

I am thinking of building a 1984 SCRS (3.0 L) replica for PCA Racing (class C). I have seen some engine specs (250hp) and a few photos but not many details. It was light (2100 lbs). Does anyone have extensive specs for this car such construction materials (fiberglass fenders/hood?) interior photos (pull up windows vs. cranks)? This should be a fun car since you can lighten it and modify the engine and still be in a stock class! Of course you have 3.6 Turbos and GT3’s in your class!

Regards, David
Old 06-08-2004, 05:47 AM
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Do a search on 911 SCRS or 953 / 954... and see what comes up. Its been discussed.

---Wil
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Old 06-08-2004, 06:09 AM
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David,
I think this would be a very interesting project, one I often think of doing if I ever have the resources to take on another car. It used a lot of aluminum in the body - hood, front fenders, doors. The front & rear bumpers were fiberglass, I think the ducktail was fiberglass too (or maybe aluminum). The "factory short shift" kit was developed for this car. There was also a rather cool exhaust setup; it could be alternated between a sport exhaust and megaphones, by simply removing the plates capping the megaphones. This was because the car was built for rallying rather than racing, so it had to be driven on European streets in between competitive sections. There is a little bit here and ther in different books about the car (It's mentioned in Bruce Andersons' 911 Performance Handbook), and in a few other places, but there's not a lot that I know of. Ther cars were run by David Richard's Autosport in the UK, this is the company now known as Prodrive, which is well known for Rally Subarus and Endurance Ferrari GT's. I would think they may be able to offer you some infor about the cars if you wanted to build a replica. By the way, the Street version had 250bhp, the competition version had 300bhp. All without a cat...
Old 06-08-2004, 06:11 AM
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Porsche Crest SCRS

Thanks!

I have done a web search and seen a few photos, etc. Too bad about the AL fenders/hood! I have to use the same material in PCA, so no chance of getting those (in my budget). I had hoped Porsche used fiberglass (has to be same factory material).

I am hoping for a SCRS historian, not many made hoverer.
Old 06-08-2004, 06:27 AM
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20 of them made. Did you do a search on this board (as opposed to google)? We've had a few threads with pretty much all the information that's out there.
Old 06-08-2004, 06:43 AM
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What?...no SCRS historians here??

Look here and also in the embedded links:

what do you know about the 1984 911SC/RS

Was there ever an SC/RS

---Wil
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Old 06-08-2004, 07:03 AM
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Porsche Crest Thanks

Great Stuff,

I need documentaion for PCA to "prove" I built the car to the correct specs. Any interior shots, body construction details (I know the bumpers were glass). Roll up windows?
Thanks!
Old 06-08-2004, 07:15 AM
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Porsche Crest SC RS

It seems aluminum was used extensively (fenders, hood, etc). Impossible for me to duplicate in my budget. To get the car down to 2156 lbs (PCA RULES WEIGHT) with steel would be almost impossible. In fact I think that is an error and is the race version.

Note that “car was trimmed from normal road going weight of 2600 lbs to 2330 lbs” It make sense, with Al engine/transmission case, interior etc. It would have to be really striped to get to 2156. All this is great info! Looks like the power to weight for this car will not be attractive.

Regards, David
Old 06-08-2004, 07:48 AM
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Here's a link:

http://www.slowlysideways.com/englisch/members/Davies/Davies_engl.html

and a teaser photograph...

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Old 06-08-2004, 08:26 AM
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Weight wise, if you start with a 1974 911, you can get really close without the aluminum hood or fenders. A buddy of mine has a 74 Carrera (w/ AC removed) that weighs under 2300 lb.... stock! With F/G on the front and rear bumpers and putting a lightweight interior in, you could get really close to 2200.... possibly close enough for your purposes.

As far as the engine goes, you're on your own. I do remember it being MFI, so it would be really cool.

I am sure the SC RS documentation is around.... you just need to track it down.
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Old 06-08-2004, 08:26 AM
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Porsche Crest SCRS

Wow, this is why I love Pelican.

My problem is that with a cage, etc, the car will approach 2350-2400 (without glass fenders/hood) and wil not be competive in class C with the 99 911 GT3's! At 2156 (if that were possible) it woudl be.

Several years ago I built a GTU car totally stripped but with extensive cage and it was 2050. The 1800 lb cars have no real cage and the much lighter Mag case engines/trans. Another reason is the much heavier wheels/tires and big brakes the race cars use now.

I may simply build a GT class car, I was lookign for a loophole and I wanted to run in a less hetic (and slower) group!
Old 06-08-2004, 08:42 AM
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some pics.




[url]
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Last edited by Yellowbird RS; 06-08-2004 at 09:34 AM..
Old 06-08-2004, 09:14 AM
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A real one

Dear Yellowbird, is that a real one, yours? It looks like a stock interior (except for seats). Correct? I bet it is fun with 250 HP!
Old 06-08-2004, 09:31 AM
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Porsche produced in 1983 a racing version of the 911 SC : the SC/RS. To homologuate it, 20 exemplars had to be produced. 5 get to Rothmans for racing and the 15 others were sold as street version.

The 911 SC/RS is mainly based on the 930 and particularly on its body and chassis. Indeed, it retakes the wide body, the wheels, the tyres, the brakes and the suspensions of the 911 turbo. In fact, the servobrake wasn't utilized but the braking power was adjustable between front and rear sets. The street legal car is just fitted with larger torsion bars : 22 mm front and 27.5 mm rear ( instead of 19 mm and 26 mm respectively).

To lighten the car, the measures used on the RS and RSR models were applied : no more rear seats, soundproofing materials nor heating system (replaced by a heating system feed by fuel on street version) , utilisation of thin glass on all glasses, aluminium on body pannels (front and rear lid, doors and front wings), fiberglass on front and rear bumpers. Of course, the interior was treated as well with the installation of light bucket seats, removal of the watch, thin door panels opened by a simple strip and no electric equipment at all. With all these actions, the 911 only weight 980 kg.

The engine was of course an evolution of the SC 3.0 and retake its dimension. Nevertheless, the engine received large modifications in racing views. The K-Jetronic mechanical injection has been replaced by a six pistons Kugelfisher pump. The compression ratio has been raised from 9.8:1 to 10.3:1 with the utilisation of new forged pistons. New overhead camshafts and valve settings ensure a great rev rising. As a result, the engine type 930/18 developped 255 hp @ 7,000 rpm and 26 mkg @ 6,500 rpm with the street legal exhaust system. On street version, the engine received an air pump, like on the 911 SC model to improve the quality of exhausted gas. The oil cooler of the 911, positionned in the front right wing was enlarged and placed in the front spoiler. The gearbox type 915 also receive an additionnal oil cooler (as on the Carrera 3.2) to support the important torque developped by the engine. The gearbox ratios were different than standard ones, and come as specified in the following table :

Gear Ratio
1st 3.18:1
2nd 2.00:1
3rd 1.38:1
4th 1.08:1
5th 0.89:1

The SC/RS is also fitted with a 40% locking factor anti-slip differential and a reinforced clutch. On the road, even in street version, the car is very performant : until 160 kph, it accelerates faster than a 300 hp 911 turbo ! But high speed is lower than on the Carrera 3.2, due to the bad front surface of the wide body and the shorter gear ratios. Here are the measures obtained by Auto, Motor und Sport, compared with the 1983 911 turbo :

911 SC/RS 911 turbo 3.3
0-100 kph 5"0 s 5"2 s
0-160 kph 11"7 s 11"8 s
standing kilometer 24"7 s 24"0 s
top speed 244 kph 260 kph




Some info about racing with the SC/RS
In the early eighties, the sponsor in racing of Porsche was Rothmans, essentially in endurance races. But in 1983, a rallycar would carry Rothmans colors : the 911 SC/RS. In this time, rallying was a technological race without limits : the Group B rallycars used rare materials and great engineering to produce 500 hp in an ultra perfectionned body.

The performances of these famous cars were absolutely astonishing as their prices. Lancia 037, Peugeot 205 Turbo 16, Audi Quattro, Toyota Celica Turbo...Very performant cars and not a Porsche to fight against. The Group B at Porsche was planned for 1983 with engagement in rally in 1985. So there wasn't any rally programm. At that time, Rothmans was engaged with Opel but results were late to come and as relations were good between the cigarette manufacturer and Porsche, they asked the factory to produce a rallycar for the 1984 season. The program was clear : European Championship because a 911 was still competitive in this kind of races.

In fact, in some races, the 911 was still competitive provided a good driver was at the wheel. In the last three years, private clients won great victories like the Tour de Corse (1981 - Thérier and Vial) and even the European drivers Championship (1981 - Zanini), the swiss championship (1983 - Ferreux) and the belgian championship (1983 - Snyers), all on 911 SC. So Porsche began to produce what would be known as 911 SC/RS. It was homologuated as an evolution of the 911 SC model and 20 have been produced, 5 of which for Rothmans; the other ones have been sold as street version for DM 188,100. The Carrera 3.2 wasn't retained as a base for the rally car because its larger engine put it in the upper class of cubic capacity, heavier. For the scope of the modifications, check the street version document but the racing version was again improved.

From the beginning, to improve the behaviour of the car and its capacity of reception after jumps, Porsche planned to install helicoidal coil springs. Unfortunately, as the 911 SC wasn't fitted with such equipments, Porsche had to wait 1985 to homologuate it. So, for the 1984 season, the car received larger torsion bars : 22 mm front and 27.5 mm rear ( instead of 19 mm and 26 mm respectively).

The 911 also receive high performances racing shock absorbers and a reinforced engine cross bar. The cockpit is equiped with an aluminium roll cage. If the street legal version is fitted with a 8:31 final drive ratio, two shorter (8:35 and 7:37) were homologuated on the racing version. The transmission is also improved by the utilisation of a competition disc clutch. As an end, the exhaust system is a "Rallye" model which is optimized for the engine settings. It allows the SC/RS to provide 280 hp @ 7,000 rpm and 29.6 mkg @ 5,500 rpm with no less than 26 mkg between 3,500 and 7 ,500 rpm. Porsche produced the car, Rothmans sponsorized it and the DRA team (future Prodrive) used to engage it on tracks.

The car would run for the European Championship but also in the Middle East one with Saeed Al Harji. In Europe, Rothmans engaged a great driver who already had driven for Rothmans with opel. The problem is that this pilot was so great that even Lancia engaged it for the World Championship on the fabulous Lancia 037. But Henri Toivonen was ready to drive both cars. The first part of the Championship was a little bit disapointing for the team as the car showed little wickness but it was very performant on dry tracks. The first victory came in Sardaigne at the middle of the season, followed by victory in Belgium and on the "Milles pistes" rally, in the south of France. Some other great places allowed the team to win the European Championship but some problems with Toivonen lead to a second place overall, which is a great result.

After this episode, Toivonen was fired. On the races, the 911 SC/RS is a very agile car with great motricity, on every fields. It is due to the weight distribution, more pronounced on the rear that the production 911s. It was a great advantage during the season. In the Middle East Championship, where sand and rocks are roads, Al Harji and the 911 were the best with a lot of victories and won the Championship.

For 1985, the car received reinforced chassis and transmission and improved oil ducts.The programm was the same as before with two new pilots for the European Championship : Bill Coleman and Bernard Beguin. The races were hard, competiting with the Group B cars. But the SC/RS obtained great places like third and fourth in the Rallye of Corsica, vicory in Ireland and second places in the "Tour de France" and in Alsace. But concurrence was rude and with the disparition of the Group B cars (fatal accident of Toivonen on Lancia), the racing 959 project was given up. As a result, Porsche and Rothmans stopped rallying to concentrate their minds to the sport prototypes championship. Until 1987, the 911 SC/RS obtained great results in the Middle East but then ... the 911 was obsolete facing the new 4WD rally cars. The end of an area.
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Old 06-08-2004, 09:34 AM
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no it's not mine but yes it's a real one.
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Old 06-08-2004, 09:40 AM
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David: as a reference point, I pretty much hollowed out my 911 of all non-performance items - mostly that involves no a/c and no real interior except for lightweight seats and RS carpeting and panels. My car weighs in at about 2300 pounds give or take how much gas is in the tank. One penalty I do have is the roll bar, which weighs 50 pounds. So conceivably, my car could go down to about 2250. Now, if you factor in other things I have not done, which entail fiberglass bumpers and hood, you'd save another 100 pounds. Take into consideration other items toward building an SC/RS, like headers, aluminum X-member, lighter engine components (you won't be running CIS, which has a weight penalty over Webers at the very least) Lexan windows, fiberglass doors/fenders, possibly R-Gruppe style tailights, and you'd easily get the car to 2100. This, of course, does not include the weight penalty you will incur with larger wheels and tires, though I don't think it will render you as not competitive.
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Old 06-08-2004, 09:45 AM
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Yellowbird - so it sounds like by what you wrote, top speed didn't inhibit this car at all from being competitive. That is good to know.
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Old 06-08-2004, 10:11 AM
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here's the rally intirior version.




the trunk:
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Old 06-08-2004, 10:42 AM
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Porsche Crest Thanks

Again Thanks,

PCA is funny about stock appearance, etc. I would run the car a stock SCRS. Of course how many are out there at PCA races, zero I bet!

The interior of the stock one on the showroom posed by Yellowbird (thanks) looks like stock pleated panels. Is the windows roll up or strap type (sure wish they were strap type!) I have to build the car as a stock (if you can call it stock) street version of the SCRS not the rally version. Lance from PCA said have as much documentation to back up you claim the car is an “update” as possible.

Unless I get a waiver, I can't use fiberglass panels except for the bumpers. The hood is really heavy; stock 930 fenders (undercoating removed) would be OK. Looking at the PCA rules it looks like you can have a lexan windshield even in stock classes, but not side windows. I think the SCRS used thinner glass (like the 73 RS).

I may not be able to get down to a low weight but the car should be fun, and I have the 3.0 to build on.

One hope is that PCA rules allow headers in stock class. With 10:5, RSR cams and the 43 MM ports used in the SCRS, possibly 270 HP? The stock SCRS was 250, but I assume that was with a road muffler.

Now I need a cheap Al hood (yea, right!)
Old 06-08-2004, 11:41 AM
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Porsche Crest SCRS

Hey I just noticed, I have one part, the Fitti steerng wheel in the rally car!
Old 06-08-2004, 11:42 AM
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