Help me with a new 911 convert (pic)
 

Made the mistake of driving my car to work one day. A fellow employee decided he "just has to have one like that". So I talked with him in length on the quirks of ownership involving the older 911s. Fell on deaf ears. Long story short he bought this Carrera a couple of days ago and just isn't happy.
Part of the reason is that he is 'vette guy. I keep telling him you can't put a truck motor in a GT car and call it a sports car. It just doesn't work that way. This is a REAL sports car.
The other problem is that this car was not sold as represented. The paint sux, the engine is filthy, the muffler is real cheezy and cheap (Monza maybe?), and on and on.
Bottom line - this car is a track whore sold to a GT guy.

I could not go with him when he bought it due to the seller being 400 miles away. I'd have passed for the money. Can you help?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1087233710.jpg

This is what I would do..
say, "here, give me the keys.. get in the passenger seat, and try to keep quiet."
Then, spend ten minutes getting it warmed up, get the feel of the car.
THEN, spend the next 15 minutes making him scream like a little girl. :)

I have a friend who used to call mine a volkswagen. he did that once too many times so I used this trick on him.
He's pretty quiet about it now.
-this may be the form of medicine that this guy needs to realize what kind of special car this is.. "no, it's NOT a corvette.."

rarly, you did what you could. he should have seen you as an enthusiast, and come running to you for help PRIOR to buying this car. any and all problems he encounters from now on, will be on him.

do you know, how it runs? is it a total POS? did he over pay? all this will definately sour him from this car. doesnt sound like he got a PPI.

Can he clean the car up? Will he listen to you if you give him a 12 step list of things to do? Unless the car is a rust heap with zero compression on 2 cylinders, it can be made good.

Getting this guy to "get it" seems akin to trying to explain sex to a virgin.

He drove it and he didn't like it?!! Tell him that a crappy Corvette will also feel crappy when he drives it. Take him for a ride in your car and let him see what a good car is capable of.

I can understand why he doesn't "get it", especially if he comes from V8 land. If not for my predisposition to air-cooled-ness, my initial drives would have left me less-than-inspired. These aren't exactly plop down, floor it and feel-the-love cars...takes a bit more work.

um, 2 things, 1 have him sell the car and 2 have him either get a good 911 or get another vette or even a viper. There may still be a chance, has he ridden in yours or maybe a couple of others? Or he may just never get it and may have to have the small block low end torque.

you gotta drive it with him in the car, or get him driving it with you in the car so you can 'talk' him through the theory of driving a 911

What is the car? I'm guessing 85 or 86 TL, because if it were a turbo he wouldn't be complaining. Everything you mentioned is cosmetic (paint, dirty engine) - which is funny that he's unhappy because these are the things non-911 people look at first. How does it drive? Is he shifting at 3000 in every gear, wondering where his low end torque is? How are the brakes on the car? Being a vette guy, would he even know good brakes if he saw them?

Maybe the guy is just not a porsche kind of guy.
If he does not get it for all of the things that make a 911 a 911 he should just take the loss sell it and get what makes him happy.
Did he buy the first one he saw?

Dang... its first impressions like this that really ruin the Porsche experience for people. Its still his own fault, but too bad he joined the family on a 'not so good' note. Seems like he could be the type to just jump right in and buy one... the perfect bait for a good scam.:(

Tell him to sell me the 911 and I will make sure it gets a home that will know what it is to want and enjoy a 911. Hmmm you cant convert people that are into crap, some like this one just dont get it

Let me explain to the virgin. http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/03-rire1.gif http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/wow.GIF

He needs to be around some Porsche people. Get him to drive it to ANY event coming up. Maybe help him douche the motor a bit before going. Also, I bet you could raise that car up a half inch and make it ride nice and just as good in handling.

I can elaborate a bit now that I'm not at work.

First - the car is REAL strong. It is a purpose-built track ride owned by a PCA regional president. Highly modded and quite twitchy. Good shape mechanically, fair shape cosmetically.

Problem is the new owner wanted a GT or "highway cruizer". I tried to talk him into a 928 or a well cared for 964 (given the price range requirement). This car is by no means a highway machine.

Here are the stats as I know them:

Car - Euro grey market '84 Carrera Targa with a widebody conversion.
Engine - modded 3.2L includes cams, headwork, chip, throttle body, SSIs, K&N, etc, etc.
Suspension - don't know but it's not stock. Lowered as well.
Brakes - don't know but they're not stock either.
Wheels - turbo twist
Receipts total $30K spent in the last year to do all that.

My problem with the car:
For the money spent it is ragged. The paint has chips, the targa top and all trim is original looking (aged). The muffler is a cheap piece of crap. Something fell off the heater system on the drive back to Alabama. I am not familiar with the Carrera hose system so I don't know what it looked like. Also horrible fuel mileage - probably due to all the engine mods.

What I like about it:
Great track monster. Great brakes great accelleration and throttle resonse. Looks good in photos and at 10 feet. Sounds very aggressive. Excellent air conditioning (I know, I couldn't believe this car even HAD air let alone good air).

BUT - with bad fuel mileage, twitchy road handling, a leaky targa top (he HAD to have a targa), and no CC I fear this fellow will not grow fond of the track whore very quickly.

And while we're at it, what do you think would have been a fair price to have given for this car?

Couldn't he have the car realigned to factory specs and ride height to get rid of the "twitchy' handling? And maybe go back to a stock chip to help with gas mileage? Unless those cams are huge they shouldn't affect mileage to badly and SSI's probably help the mileage when cruising. Everything else can be fixed since its cosmetic. I'd do like the others say and take him for a drive in his car, showing him how it's meant to be driven.

Putting correct wheels on it could help a lot in the way it feels. Hard to believe a PCA guy would put those wheels on an early chassis. A good used muffler shouldn't cost too much.

***BUT***

I knew a guy like your friend once. Bought a Targa and didn't like it unless every seat was filled with a person and the trunk full of luggage. Then he said "it rode like a Buick" which was his personal standard of excellence.

He made the wrong choice. I suspect 964 coupe would have been great for him. Do not feel responsible for this fellow's happiness. You can't fix it.

Great advice.
While I don't feel responsible for the purchase I did talk him out of a few other cars he was looking at. One was a 964 cab. The early 964s scare me because of the expensive repairs some of them required. This particular car had average miles for its age ('91 with ~100K on the clock). I REALLY didn't want my buddy to chance emptying his wallet on repairs.

As for the Carrera, he did get a good ride in it - by the owner. I was told that the owner insisted on giving him a ride that would show off the car's abilities. Unfortunately, all he got out of it was that the owner apparently is abusive to the car in his driving style. Yes, I explained that you can't hardly hurt these cars and red line isn't a bad thing.

Mileage - because I don't yet know what all has been done to the engine I can't recommend any fix. Changing the chip might make it run too lean for the mods. I should get a copy of the build sheet on Tuesday, I'll share it with you all.

'Vette mind set - well call me guilty of that in a previous life. I too was hard core small block chevy before my Porsche indoctrination. It took me a full year to redline my SC. If I can be converted anyone can. This fella is even worse off - he owns several BIG block 'vettes so he's used to the red line of a diesel.

Also a little background on the new owner. Real nice fella who collects big block 'vettes and Cameros. I don't know how many he has and he may not either. Man's man type dude with a huge garage full of tools that he knows how to use. Undoubtedly he will tear this Carrara down to its last bolt, clean it up, and figure out how everything works. So we just need to get past that "torque vs horsepower" thing and do some track time!

So it sounds like we need to look at:
- different wheels / tires
- raise the ride hight a bit
- realign for less twitchiness
- "detune" or re-time the engine if possible for more torque and fuel mileage
- look into some way to make a targa top waterproof (yea right)
- better muffler
- replace whatever heater part fell off the engine

I hate to post twice and say the same thing, but get this chap out with some Porschephiles and let him hear the passion that abounds. I seriously doubt his Camero buddies can come across as fervent as we Porsche people are. It's the community as much as anything.

There is a good contingent in Birmingham and they go racing at the Talladega Grand Prix track (2 hrs. from Huntsville). And Road Atlanta is probably the same in time/distance. I know clubs go there. This guy doesn't have to race it, just feel that "There is no substitute." That goes for the owners as well. Hook up.

That's a definite. Even if I have to tie him to my passenger seat he's going to experience auto-x and road course runs. There's also a little mountain next to my house that loves to make non-believers piss themselves.
I already told him I'd race any big block 'vette he has in the quarter - as long as I get to choose the track.
;)

The car has a lot of potential, besides the chips and muffler is the rest of the car solid? Will it get down the road ok? Hope he got it checked out and reciepts on that motor.

Even switching back to 16's (Fuchs of course 7" + 9") and giving it a good street alignment will fix a lot of the twitchiness, doubt raising it is gonna restore any ride compliance, looks good as it sits but get the corner balancing checked...

As long as he didn't pay into the high 'teen's it's not that bad of a deal. It's all weekend fixit stuff.

He'll be fine.