Why did a stock 964 feel as fast as my 993?

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Last Sunday I test drove a new Pelicanhead's (new to him) 964. I think it was an '89 or '90 and the engine had been resealed, but was left stock.

That car was very fast. I did not feel any less pull at all than I do with my 993. I don't care about his car being fast, but I'm wondering if mine is missing something. I recently had my car all checked out with the factory fault code reader and all was fine. They even shut down each cylinder one at a time with this thing and also verified that my varioram was working. So, as far as I know, everything on my car is ok. I have Fabspeed MaxFlows, a drilled air box and just put in solid motor mounts. So my car is LOUD inside and has always pulled very strong. Why does this 964 feel just as fast?

john_colasante · 06-15-2004, 11:45 AM

There isn't a night and day difference between the two cars Richard. They are essentially the same car. Granted, your car has a little more torque but in an acceleration test it might not be noticable.

KobaltBlau · 06-15-2004, 11:46 AM

well..... The power to weight ratio is probably not that different...

That's all I've got.

IROC · IROC's Garage

Weight? How much does a '90 C2 weigh compared to your 993? The torque of the engines is probably similar (due to the same displacement). Gearing? Does his G50 have the same gearing as your 993? Tire sizes? Smaller diameter, lighter weight tires and wheels can make a car "pull" harder.

Just some guesses...

Mike

Craig 930 RS · 06-15-2004, 11:53 AM

What is the official weight of a 993?

Craig
@RS

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Hmmm. I'm running Pirelli Pzero 285's in the rear, but my 5 spoke 996 wheels are super lightweight - lighter by far than my previous set of AT Rivas. I think the 993 is around 2800 lbs. and I have a fat as$ to boot.

Oh well. I obviously need that G50/21 (Euro spec.) and LWF. Ok, I'll add that to my pre-wedding shopping list.

Still, this reinforces my belief that the 964 is the best bang for the buck in the 911 line.

KobaltBlau · 06-15-2004, 12:05 PM

standard 2WD 993 C2 with few options is quoted between 3000 and 3100, iirc.

ZCAT3 · 06-15-2004, 12:40 PM

My 87 Carrera felt faster than my 993 - but it definitely was not. The 993s have a much fatter torque curve so you have more down low and therefore less noticeable push back when the car comes "on cam". A stock 930 and stock 993 have almost the same 0-60 times (around 5.4) but almost no one would think the 993 "feels" as fast as the 930 in a 0-60 run.

Ho Hum 74 · Ho Hum 74's Garage

ZCAT3 beat me to it. He's absolutely correct. The torque curves are different. For example, even the 95 993 will seem as fast as your V-Ram. The reason being that you get that on-cam at 4k rpm feeling.

Kurt B · 06-15-2004, 01:31 PM

I just got a 964, and in fact, drove it today. My lightened 3.2 is pretty quick in comparison, it just doesn't have the low end grunt as far as I can tell. But until I test them both, I don't know which is actually faster.

If I was taking off down Sepulveda from LA, and a 993 wanted to go toe to toe down the straights, I'd be ready to go in my 3.2 with 201,000 miles and he would not be blowing me out of the water (but granted, it does weigh just over 2,500 lbs),

Ho Hum 74 · Ho Hum 74's Garage

Kurt,

That 915 box doesn't hurt either. My 2.7 RS spec in a 2400 lb body feels pretty peppy.

Tristan

Kurt B · 06-15-2004, 01:37 PM

Oh yeah, if you have 200 hp on 2400 lbs yer gonna be quick. Overall, I love the 964 so far, but it also helps me understand the 3.2 is a great car. At 35 and the daily grind, I want comfort and AC once in a while but I must have it in a 911. The interior of this car is great as well, and it's very peppy. AC sucks more than I thought it would tho'

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

How tall are your drive tires? 10# or so won't noticably affect acceleration, fractions of an inch of additional height will.

In addition the torque curves of both cars are so broad that there is not a noticable D as the revs build, theses cars are sneaky fast.

maxnine11 · maxnine11's Garage

Richard, the performance numbers for the 964s and 993s are very similar. The higher torque and extra gear gives the 993 a little more top speed.

a good summary of old magazine tests here:
http://www.weissach.net/964-993_RoadTestSummary.html

max

Bryantch · 06-15-2004, 04:48 PM

I own a 90 c2 cab (stock drive train just suspension upgrades), one of my friends owns an 86 carrera cab (chipped/piped) and another owns a 97 993 cab(chipped/piped). At the track, none of us can pull away from the other in the straights. Only driver skill seems to separate the cars as far as lap time. Makes for lots of fun!!!

stuartj · 06-15-2004, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bryantch
I own a 90 c2 cab (stock drive train just suspension upgrades), one of my friends owns an 86 carrera cab

I -temporarily- own a 964 C4 and an 86 3.2 Carrera. The C4 is one of the heaviest 911's ever built (I believe) but it is several notches quicker than than the 86. In the real world, ABS and AWD all that torque mean its a sigificantly quicker road car. On the track its three- four seconds quicker than my 86.

That said, the 86 is better drive. And it smells like a 911.

stuart