Wondering what to do...

[boudy]

Hey,

I recently took a road trip and checked out an '88 911 that is located a few hundred miles from my house. I liked the car, it was one of the better 911's I've seen since I started looking. Not pristine but in excellent condition and well maintained with recent receipts. No prior service history. Almost 80k miles on the car.

The car has been listed for sale since last fall. The owner said that he had received several low ball offers.

I made an offer that I thought was fair given the condition of the car and the current market (3k less than asking price), contigent upon a successful PPI.

I arranged a PPI with a reputable shop (found it on this board of course!). The inspection revealed the following:

- torn axle boot. The owner is having this replaced at his cost.

- deteriorated and leaking A/C lines. Not a show stopper.

- interval wiper switch not working. Not a big deal.

- car still has original suspension. Typical.

- vibration when the clutch pedal is depressed. Mechanic says this indicates issues with the clutch fork and/or throw-out bearing, which should have already been replaced.

The mechanic summarized by stating he would not drive this car from its location to my home. Otherwise he stated that it was a good car and a good deal at the price I was paying.

The owner took the car to his own mechanic, who stated that while the clutch wasn't perfectly smooth, it was to be expected with the number of miles on the clutch, and that there was no cause for concern in the short term.

Both the owner's mechanic and the PPI mechanic told the owner that I was getting a great deal, that the car could bring in $4k more, and that he shouldn't be paying for repairs. So the owner will not be doing anything to the transmission.

The mechanic that I paid said that the car shouldn't be driven home in its current state since the clutch could go and result in further damage to the tranny.

So I'm contemplating whether I should go through with the deal and have the car transported here so that I don't risk getting stranded on the road, or if I should back out of the deal and look for a 911 that has already had the G50 update done. Another option is to propose that the owner and I split the cost of the update and a new clutch, though I don't think the owner will be receptive to this.

I'd appreciate your opinions.

Thanks.

[johnsjmc]

If the price is good enough and so is the car .I would buy it and expect to put a clutch in it in the future. I would probably drive it home and save the transport fee to put towards a clutch. A 500 mile trip can be done with little damage as long as the clutch isn,t slipping.The present owner has already lowered the price 3K and you test drove it I presume . I would look for a PPI to find issues that are not readily obvious( like broken head studs)On the other hand if the guy wants to sell badly enough he may negotiate further.

[turbo6bar]

If it has been on the market since fall, I doubt the owner is motivated to make the deal sweeter. Then again, his spouse may be giving him the ultimatum at this very moment.

These cars are going to cost you money, regardless of condition. If you don't spend the money now, you will later.

Do you anticipate keeping this 911 for a long time? I sense a little apprehension. Is this car not what you want or are you just fumbling over the numbers? Don't overanalyze, because you can rarely make a 911 work based on the numbers.

If you ask the seller to split the cost of the repair and update, he is just going to tell you what his mechanic told him (the car is fine for its age).

My vote, if this is the ONE, is tow the car home and DIY the clutch. Without knowing the price range, we are just guessing.
I wish you luck, jürgen

[boudy]

Thanks guys.

I did drive the car and enjoyed it very much. Its what I've been looking for but the results of the PPI burst my bubble.

I'm not keen on spending $21k on a car that has to be towed home and taken apart immediately. For that amount of money I don't think its unreasonable to find a car that is up to date and can go a year or two without the need for an engine/tranny drop.

I do tend to keep my cars for a longtime. I also tend to over-analyze, must be an engineering thing.

[Erakad]

You made the right decision.

[turbo6bar]

Boudy, go with your gut. I think you are right on all accounts. $21k can buy a LOT of 911 these days. Once you find the right one, you'll know.

Have you looked at the classifieds here? Occasionally, there are some spectacular models for sale. jurgen

[rbcsaver]

Both the owner's mechanic and the PPI mechanic told the owner that I was getting a great deal, that the car could bring in $4k more, and that he shouldn't be paying for repairs. So the owner will not be doing anything to the transmission.
The mechanic that I paid said that the car shouldn't be driven home in its current state since the clutch could go and result in further damage to the tranny.

As an aside issue, do I read your post correctly, that YOU paid the PPI mechanic and he told the seller that you were getting a great deal and the seller should not pay for any repairs? WTF! You paid this guy to represent your interests, then he represented the seller. Any negotiation leverage you had were negated by your PPI. I would never do any business with this guy again and you may also have a breach of contract if he spoke with the seller...I'm not an attorney, but maybe you should have one. Also watch to make sure that he doesn't end up the buyer of the car.
regards,

[FenderGuy]

Originally posted by boudy


I'm not keen on spending $21k on a car that has to be towed home and taken apart immediately. For that amount of money I don't think its unreasonable to find a car that is up to date and can go a year or two without the need for an engine/tranny drop.

Walk the car is over priced for work that maybe be needed. Being the market for a while now I have seen these cars go up and down in prices, What I have been seeing recently is laughable. High Milage SC's with owners asking $15k to $17k, when the Carrera's are in the range of $20k to $25k. These cars are over 20 years old, keep looking and find the right car, also find the right owner that doesnt think he is still in the 1980s with the prices.

[boudy]

Thanks again.

I was pretty annoyed when the owner told me that the PPI mechanic (a highly recommended shop in PA) had told him that he could sell the car for $25k and that he shouldn't be paying for repairs. I'm going to have a discussion with the mechanic Monday morning about this, and then that will be the end of it.

I'm going to chalk it up to a learning experience and keep looking. I'm not in a hurry.

[89turbocabmike]

I think your on the right track boudy. When it's the right car, you'll know. Enjoy the hunt...I always find it a great part of the car ownership process.

[hoosierdaddy]

Boudy
Did the ppi mechanic make the "good deal " comments to you directly or to the owner ? If this comment was made to the owner I think I would call the mechanic ask him about it , you might be getting a liitle bull from the owner .

Jim

[Crachian]

There a many '88-89 coupes in Panorama this month, more than usual. I think that it will take $20k to get a nice one, but it doesn't sound like this one is.

AC $2k
suspension $2k over next year or so
little stuff $300 now

Did the car have a complete 75k mile service including valve adjust, etc.? If not, the clutch job is going to cost you at least $2500 by the time you're finished. But at least you'll know.

I wouldn't worry about driving it like it is. But it needs a clutch. They all do at 70k miles. The vibration sounds like what I experienced when my clutch disintegrated. The rubber center portion breaks off, causing an imbalance so it vibrates. Small bits of rubber would fly out of the flywheel housing through the vent, so look around on the floor where the car is kept if you can.

If the seller fixes all of those things, he may get $25k, which is probably exactly what the shop was thinking and hoping.

[Por_sha911]

I purchased my `87 with less than 35K miles last fall and paid less than what it will cost you to buy the car and fix the clutch. Don't walk away, run. There are better deals out there. Unless the car is some kind of special edition, it ain't worth it.
BTW-tell your PPI mechanic you want your money back. He had no right telling the owner that he was selling the car too cheap. When you pay for a PPI, that wrench is suppose to be working for you and you alone.

[jazzbass]

For $21k and 80k miles, I'd personally expect more. Mystery clutch problems, etc.? Walk away. If the car was $15k, I'd say go for it, but anything over $20k at that mileage should have little to no mechanical problems. My $0.02.

[azasadny]

boudy,
Be patient and persistent and you'll find the car you want at a fair price. I know you're disappointed, but keep looking, it's out there!

[boudy]

I'm looking for a summer car, an 87-89 cabrio or targa. Any leads appreciated. This particular car was a cabrio.

[boudy]

Just spoke to the PPI mechanic, he said he described exactly what the problems were to the owner but the owner didn't want to believe it. It appears that the owner is putting his spin on what the PPI mechanic, and maybe what his own mechanic, have told him.

The quest continues!

[masraum]

$25K and even 21K seems pretty steep unless the car is a completely perfect '88 or '89. The seller is caught up in what lots of people get caught up in, thinking his car is worth more than the market says it is.

His car may actually be worth $30K, but if the market says $15K then he won't be getting $30K, it's just plain old economics.

[Todd Simpson]

I think a lot of responses here assumed the car is a coupe...or at least I did until I saw your signature.

[FenderGuy]

Originally posted by masraum
His car may actually be worth $30K, but if the market says $15K then he won't be getting $30K, it's just plain old economics.

Best piece of advice I ever heard, the same could be said of other cars, some just think they can create thier own market and they will set on that market for a while...