R12 or R134?

[rcecale]

My 86 Carerra is in desperate need of A/C Servicing.

I've discovered that there was a TSB in December of 85 that introduced an upgrade from R12 to R134 but I can't tell if this has been done on mine. (She was born in Aug, 86)

Anyway, I've seen in the upgrade kits that they come with a sticker to indicate what type of coolant the system uses, but I have no such sticker.

The upgrade also calls for a replacement of the servicing valves. Can someone tell me whether this low pressure valve is R12 or R134? If it helps, the compressor unit is a Nippondenso.


Thanks!

Randy

[jgporsche]

That is an R12 connection. My low side (Hardest to get to) is in the rear of the compressor. (1988 911 "Nippondenso") On my car that one showing would be the high side (easiest to get to). You can buy the R134A adapters anywhere even Walmart now. Search this site. It's not to rough. If you still have R12 in your system. (Push down on the valve) you may want to take it and get it topped off. I've heard of using Duracool to top off. Never did that before though. I did 14 years in the Corp. Good Luck!

[rcecale]

jgporsche,

My compressor is most likely the same as yours. Do these look correct?


I've done some searching on the www and have come across some stuff called Freeze 12 that is supposed to be an EPA safe and cost effective alternative to both R134 AND R12. Also, you can addd it right to an existing R12 systems. Has anyone had any experience with this stuff?

Randy

[jmarenas]

I had R12 in mine, very low PO didnt recharge, I had all R12 Purged, new dryer, Re charged 134 all for 200.00 dollars works great now! John

[brcorp]

Randy,

Nice polished A/C compressor! Lets see the entire engine.

[rcecale]

Don't encourage me, Bill!



Randy

[jgporsche]

You've marked the Low & High side right. R12 works the best. Lot of issues with the blends, ie Freeze12, Duracool etc. A/C isn't that great unless you modify your system. Larger condensers, Procooler, new evaporator etc. Probably best to stay with R12 until it gets harder to find. Call around, some places here charge $20.00 a can more than others. That is a clean engine! Did you use Brasso?

[rcecale]

BRASSO!!!! Why didn't I think of that???

Actually, I recently had the engine out to rebuild the tranny, so I took advantage of the great accessability and scrubbed her up. She could use a little more detailing, but I like it. Thanks!!!

After doing some shopping around today, I've pretty much decided that I'm gonna stay with the R12. I had it serviced in August, 2002, but I didn't drive it very much (or operate the A/C) through that winter so it seems to have lost the charge.

I started using it as a daily driver in September, 2003 after I had the top re-skinned and now that summer is here, I'm really wanting the A/C.

From what I understand, only an A.S.E. certified technician can service R12 nowadays, so I'll do some shopping around to find a good deal. Anyone know of a good technician around Atlanta?

Randy

edit: P.S. I told you guys not to encourage me...



Having the engine out makes it very easy, indeed!

[rcecale]

Sorry for the silly question but, this IS the Front Condenser Fan, is it not?





Randy

[toolman]

Yes, that is the front condenser fan. What is it doing up there?

[rcecale]

Hey, Toolman!

Funny you should ask that question. As I mentioned, I had my A/C serviced in August, 2002. Well, also on the bill were charges for a new Front Fan Condenser Motor and the labor for installing it...over $300.00.

Does this look like a NEW motor? Does it look like one with only 3,000 miles on it? Or, is it possible my mechanic opened it up and just replaced the motor inside this unit?

In a couple of pics, you can see the fan blades which definitely show their age, but it doesn't look as though it was installed onto a new motor. Should I (or CAN I) open the case and take a look? It's been almost 2 years since this was "replaced", I'd just like to be sure that it really was.

Randy

Oh, yeah...here is a shot of what was underneath it when I removed it. The sand sure reminds me of when I was living in Nevada....not too much sand like that here in Georgia.

[konish]

Randy,
Indeed he probably just replaced the motor. THe suirrel cage comes off via a set screw and lock collar...but it is a PITA to remove from the motor shaft. These motor housing has a nsaty habit of collecting road debris and moisture which leads to corrosion on the front, and sometimes on the back motor bushings. When I priced the motor through the dealer..they wanted over $300 for just the motor. I told them to stuff it. Used parts places wanted over $100...same story. I called a VW supply house and ordered the Bosch part number for $85 brand new. Funny thing is that the motor had BOTH the Bosch number AND the Porsche part number on the motor. Go figure.

Anyway to keep the bad boy clean and healthty, I drilled two small holes in the housing to access both the back and front of the motor (less than 1/4" diameter) and plugged them with some generic rubber covers from Autozone. Now, I can squirt a quick shot of pb blaster on both top and bottom bearings to keep them corrosion free.

Some guys recommend against the drilling suggesting more crap will get into the housing but in IMHO it'll more likely get in there via the HUGE opening in the front anyway. Removing and taking the shrooud apart is a pain as well and as old as they are getting the plastic is pretty brittle.

When you go to reinstall, forget that dried up old rubber gasket that forms the mouth of the opening in the front bulkhead. Instead, try a bit of the thick, rope caulking they sell at Home Depot (et al). It's pliable, does nto harden and makes sealing the mouth of the condensor housing and the hole in the bulkhead MUCH easier. Its a bit ghetto, but it works and who'll see it anyway?

I tired to use a cleaner, softer gasket that came with a used housing I bought but I damned near broke the mouth of the housing off trying to fit it. If you do try and use the gasket, make sure you put some rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle and keep the thing pretty well dripping wet with the alcohol and it'll slide in a bit easier. The complicated part is keeping the gasket from rolling out of it's groove when the housing mouth seats.

Hope this helps...

R/
Dustin

[konish]

Dang forgot a couple of things. Use window sealing double sided tape for the belly pan side of the housing...the factory tape will be all used up (as you can tell) and it won't seal right becasue the housing is usually pretty warped anyway by now. The closed cell foam tape (for windows) will seal any gaps..thinner the better and DONT torque the screws down too tight. As you can see the mounting holes like to crack and fall off.

If you do want to spit the housing CAREFULLY pry back the sping clips that hodl the whole thing together...I think there are 4 or them around the seam. Once split, remove the screws from the mounting plate (on the tip of the cone) and the motor will pull right out.

However from looking at your pics again, it does NOT look like the motor had been replaced. The cage lock collar is pretty corroded and if he removed the cage and replaced just the motor, he would have HAD to use some penetrating lube, heat and muscle to get the thing to give up it's grip. It isn't pretty...no kidding it may take about 2-3 days of soaking in PB Blaster to remove it. Remove the set screw in the collar before soaking to ensure the stuff gets onto the motor shaft too. Once off you may be able to put some pep back into the motor by using PB Blaster on both the top and bottom bushings and spin it by hand. Clean as necessay...you know the drill.

Finally, install a fuse (I think 10 amps is enough) in line with the hot wire...if the motor binds when running it may catch fire. The factory has a plug in pigtail that was added after 86. I got mine cheap so I used the factory part...Pelican has them.

R.
Dustin

[toolman]

PB Blaster is great for penetrating but has no lube qualities. For lubrication, use Wurth HHS 2000. It is about $21.00 a can, but it goes on thin and penitrates then turns to a synthetic grease good for -180 to +350 degrees.

[jgporsche]

I just read last week were someone’s fan caught fire. Roughly, $3000.00 of damage. My car didn’t have the update. I installed an inline 5 amp fuse & holder from Autozone. Used heat shrink on the connections since it could get wet up there.

[Ray B]

Randy, I noticed from earlier threads that you have used Reggie at Proformance Place to do some of your work. Did he "replace" your condenser motor?? I ask anly because I do not believe him to be trustworthy based on my dealings with him. He screwed me royally on a PPI. PM me if you really want to know what I think of this guy- BEWARE!!! BTW, JG is spot on about the fuse. Semper Fi jarhead.