What are the rules?

BB911SC · 07-09-2004, 02:35 AM

Having watched this board over the past few years, it is quite evident that we all have one thing in common. We all love our cars. We perform all manner of upgrades and improvements to the original design to try to make our cars something more then they were when we got them (at least in our own minds!). Power, handling, looks, all have been modified in one way or another by most of us. How far is too far? A Chevy V8? An early car that looks like a 993TT? Neon lights and Folger coffee can exhaust pipe? A 3.6L motronic motor in a long hood? The list goes on and on. In the end, what is the difference. A true purist would probably be insulted by any of these "upgrades". If someone wants to drive a 911 and be able to snap their spine with torque at 1k rpm, why not drop a V8 in it? As long as the end product is an improvement to the owner, what's the big deal?

My wife always asks me, "why do you continue to screw around with that old car, why don't you just buy a new one?". My reply is, "I would probably "screw around" no less with that so why waste the extra money on car payments."

larry47us · 07-09-2004, 03:36 AM

You want to put a Chevy V8 in a Porsche? To me, that is where it goes too far. I prefer staying original, but I can appreciate what the RGruppe guys do with their cars. There are a lot of very sweet upgrades around, from tails, to flares, to engine mods, to interiors, etc.

But when you pull the Porsche engine out and drop in an American piece of iron - sorry - but I think you've gone too far.

larry

IROC · IROC's Garage

IMHO, it's not so much the Chevy V8, but the fact that these cars weren't really ever designed for a water cooled powerplant and you end up having to butcher the thing just a bit much for my taste...

Mike

vesnyder · vesnyder's Garage

How about a guy with a most original '83 Cab. I am considering upgrades such as SSI with a new exhaust and a shift gate - do upgrades like this lessen the value of the car to potential buyers? Have a similar question how much is too much? I already made the suspension improvements (t-bars and tie rods) so maybe it is too late?

JackT · 07-09-2004, 03:43 AM

I have driven a 911 with a Corvette engine in it. I think it was 350 CI. It was a blast and a unigue experience. I personally liked the fact that someone tried it and it worked. I would not like to own the car for myself because it is no longer a Porsche anymore and that is what I am into right now. I have had big block Corvettes and if I decide I want a torque monster, I will buy another.

Hetmann · 07-09-2004, 05:19 AM

To me it's all about balance and the character of the car. You can lighten it, you can corner balance it, you can fiddle with the bits and pieces. Don't do anything to raise the CG or mess up the handling. If you want bad handling, go get a muscle car.

larry47us · 07-09-2004, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vesnyder
How about a guy with a most original '83 Cab. I am considering upgrades such as SSI with a new exhaust and a shift gate - do upgrades like this lessen the value of the car to potential buyers? Have a similar question how much is too much? I already made the suspension improvements (t-bars and tie rods) so maybe it is too late?

I find the Question of how much is too much interesting, because I have been asking that of the Early911 crowd since I first bought my car. What has been told to me is that changes that are easy to change back will not affect the value, especially if they are in kind to that period.

Different seats? OK -- Different exhaust? OK -- Lowering the car? OK -- Different Tail? OK as long as you keep the original for the guy who wants it. -- Different flares? Not OK, too expensive to undo. -- Different Color? Not OK, since it is too expensive to take it back to the original.

But the answer is really, why are you doing these things, and when are you planning on selling the car? If you are doing them to make the car more saleable -- Don't. If you are doing these things to make the car more enjoyable for you, and you have no plans to sell this car in the near to mid future, then do it, and enjoy the car.

BTW, I can't imagine that SSI's would do anything but be welcomed by the next buyer. But from what I've seen, people generally get 50 cents on the dollar invested. But that's just my .02.

larry

rvanderpyl · rvanderpyl's Garage

SSI's are good for the value, unless your prospective next owner is from CA, then it's not good. In the end any changes, other than the standard maintenance upgrades, IE chain tensioners, pop-off valve makes the market for your car smaller. AFter all if someone wants a car with SSI's they can still buy yours and add them, but if they want bone stock the fact your car has SSI's, isn't a selling point but a dis-advantage.

However this is just like buying/building a house. Who are you doing this for? Yourself, or the next owner?

masraum · 07-09-2004, 06:15 AM

I don't think the issue is the modifying or upgrading. When modifying with parts that were designed for the application, parts that may have been used on that application historically, or something like that (backdating/updating) it's not too much of a problem. It's when parts are being used that are very alien to the application that we cringe. A Mercedes Benz master cylinder is not far off from what it's replacing, there's not tons of cutting and welding that needs to be done to get it to fit. Using a different 911 engine or tranny, well, they are 911 parts, using different brakes from a 911 or that are designed for a 911... A Chevy motor, a Subaru motor, they are nothing like the motor that came out, different configuration, different bolt patterns requiring mods to the motor mount, tranny flange, gotta hack up the car to get water cooling to work, etc... I'm betting that a steering column out of a pinto wouldn't go over either. These things besides not being natural to the car also radically change the spirit of the car.

RickM · RickM's Garage

It's kind of obvious that I've played around with my car.
On the other hand I'd love to acquire an early car and spend the time and money of keeping it "original".

thrown_hammer · 07-09-2004, 06:23 AM

I say no rules. Do what makes YOU happy. I dont have a V8 in my car because it wouldn't make me happy, not because of opinions here.
I built and sold a Strosek widebody on a 1975 911S. Why? Because I wanted to. When it came time to move on I sold it for $13,000. It was well built. Alot of people on this board HATED that car. Doesn't matter to me.
Do what YOU want to with YOUR car. Just do it well. A hack job, even if "period correct" is still a hack job.

epbrown · 07-09-2004, 06:50 AM

Too far for this board is usually that point where the car stops being an actual Porsche, due to engine replacement (V8 swaps) or outrageous body modifications (slantnosecheesgraterlotustail conversions). We're Porsche enthusiasts first here, so taking away the Porscheness isn't going to go over big.

There are some pretty extreme mods that are more acceptable because they stay in the "family" (adding tubochargers, 3.6 swaps, RS replicas, etc) but even then, there are detractors...

This limit still leaves a lot of room for mods, but as others have said, the more unoriginal the car is the more trouble you'll have selling.

Emanuel

BB911SC · 07-09-2004, 07:24 AM

My car is a 1982 SC. Mods so far have been:
Seats and interior from a 965
motor from a 964rs
Jenvey Tbodies
DTA EFI
SSI's (Bill V. is right, they really are too small)
Cargraphic SS Sport 2in 2out muffler
Ruf bumpers
Goofy Kenwood stereo, disco lights included

Parts in the garage to be added:
1983 Cabrio Top
1993 C2 rear deck lid
1988 Turbo Brakes, disks, and T-bars (These might be too much)
and a long wish list...

She may be a mutt, but I love her none-the-less!

Schrup · Schrup's Garage

My rule is form follows function. If it don't make my car safer, drive better, or last longer, it's BLING