My first engine drop... The madness begins!
 

Well, here it goes, my first engine drop. I have a fuel leak near the CIS at the top, front of the engine that I can't get to. I can't get my arms in there and I sure can't see anything with that monstrous CIS mechanism in there.. I've never dropped the engine before, but I've got Wayne's 101 Projects book and I've been reading all of the past "engine drop stories" here on the BBS. I've jacked up the car, placed my jack stands, drained the oil tank and sump, and I'm going to the store to buy a large enough wrench to remove the oil lines tomorrow. I don't have a Costco near me, but I need to get an ATV/Motorcycle jack to assist me in getting the engine safely out of the car. I'm leaving the tranny in the car and I'm thinking I should remove the rear bumper to make things easier. All of the fuel line and vacuum hoses are old and dry-rotted, so I'll be ordering them from Pelican ASAP. Any other suggestions for an "engine drop rookie"? I'm going to take alot of digital pictures during the process so I can put everything back together easier, too. Thanks!!

remove the bumper for sure.

Its not that much more difficult to drop the tranny with the motor. When I did the engine drop on my '73 I could not get to the top bolt that holds the tranny and the engine together so I went ahead and dropped them both at the same time. I used a floorjack to lower the engine/tranny and everything balanced nicely.

If you decide to drop the tranny with the engine, make sure you have a set of hex socket extensions to unbolt the CVs.

Good luck!

Sherman,

Thanks for the advice! I'm going to remove the rear bumper, but I'm going to leave the tranny in the car. I did the prep work today, the real work starts tomorrow...

Are you sure you couldn't get away with doing a "partial drop"? It gives you several inches on top of the engine to work on fuel lines, seals, etc. You can do this by disconnecting the shift linkage, motor mounts, 14-pin connector, oil lines, then lowering the engine. You leave the trans mounts connected.

Anyway, it sounds like you're prepared. Go for it!

Art,

However you do it...full or partial...just take your time and don't force ANYTHING.

Pics, from several angles, can be a valuable tool. Especially when it comes time to put it all back together. Good luck!

Randy

Colin,
I may try your suggestion on the partial drop, but the fuel lines and vacuum hoses are so bad that I really want to replace all of them. I don't think I can get enough room back there unless I drop the entire engine. I'm going to take Randy's advice and take alot of pics along the way and take my time, I'm in no hurry. Thanks, guys!

Art--
A full drop is easy. While a engine only drop is not difficult either, a engine only install might be trying. To mate the trans and engine outside the vehicle takes ~45 seconds (2 minutes if solo). It will likely take alot longer, and involve lots of swearing in the car.

The partial drop might be good if you just want to get more access, but I vote for the "full monty". You can just see so much more, and you might see that "hidden" fuel line that could cause you trouble in the future.

I did my last drop, and re-install solo (it was only my second).

No need to take the bumper off. You can always jack the car up higher to clear the bumper once the engine and trans are on the dolly.

I'd never attempt to pull the engine only. Trying to mate the engine and trans back in the car must be very painful. Also, the access to the top bellhousing nuts is pretty limited. It really isn't much that has to come off to pull it all out together.

The ATV jack is a bad idea. When we used one on ZOANAS' engine drop, it was a pain and we ditched it in the middle of the process.

I still like a home made wooden dolly with a big slot cutout for a large regular jack. Then just lower the engine / trans on the dolly and pull the jack out from underneath.

Just my two cents. Good luck!!!

Cheers, George

No ATV jack for me, just 2 good size jacks will do the trick.

You can pick up a furniture dolly from Home Depot for $20.00. With a 1000 weight limit, it should be plenty strong enough.

Randy

I liked the dolly trick for my first drop as well. Also, don't go crazy jacking the car up and don't remove the bumper. Once you get the engine disconnected and all clear you can carefully jack the car the rest of the way up and slide the engine out. I'd suggest the engine/tranny in one piece as I think it's much easier to install. Finally, do a search on "while I'm in there" and you'll find a hundred other items to address.

Good luck, John

Has anyone used the tool that Pelicanparts sells to hold the engine using a regular floor jack? I think its part # PEL-PW-2565. Just curious how well it works.

Jack adapters work nicely, just make sure your jack has a wide wheelbase and you are on a solid surface or disaster may occur.

Click the link in my sig for a good pic of what I used to get my engine out. (My server is down at the moment so you might have to wait a while for the pics to become available)

Depending on your jack you may not be able to get the engine as low as you would on a dolly for slipping out from underneath the car.

IMHO - +1 on removing both the engine and tranny together.

Having worked in a porsche dealership I can tell you that even a couple experienced porsche techs can have a hard time getting the engine and tranny mated back together when the tranny is still in the car.

Brian, I have never done an engine only drop, but my concern with it is trying to see the shift fork aligning in the throw-out bearing. There's a nice window on top of the trans to see this, which won't be visible in-vehicle. How did you know when you had it?

Also, I'm an advocate of removing the bumper. The lower my car is, the more stable it feels. Keeping everything low to the ground gave me a better sense of security. There were only a few fasteners to get my bumper off.

I am saying it must be hard to align the two, because it takes some time to mate them even OUT of the car. ;)

I have done clutch jobs on non P cars and engine pulls and never had fun sticking the trans and engine back together. Even on front engine / rwd cars, I like to pull it all out at once. I can not imagine it is any better on the 911. But I have been wrong before!

George

I might be inclined to scrap the whole CIS system when I start having problems and get tbitz EFI kit. I am waaay past the 'stock' look, anyway.

SoCal has a point in leaving it in, you never know and it might align right up. I haven't ever done a 911 drop, but plenty of other german cars. Sometimes it goes right in with a little jiggling, sometimes I fight for hours... And if it isn't working out, just drop the trans. Good point.

Art--the center shaft is splined, and just make sure to turn both output shafts when aligning, otherwise the center spline won't turn. This confused me for a few minutes, until I remembered my car has an open differential.

I want to defend the ATV jack, in spite of ditching it halfway through my recent drop. If we had removed the muffler prior to the drop, there would have been ample clearance, as there was when I reinstalled.

End of Day 1... progress pics
 

It's end of day 1 and I'm officially exhausted. My hands were all greasy, so my wife took the blurry photos. I am going to buy an ATV jack this week to do the drop. I removed the rear bumper, detached all fuel, oil, electrical and tranny connections. Wayne's book was a great help, especially with the 10mm barrel nut "not visible from any angle" above the starter, that one had me nuts! Anyway, I just cleaned up for the night and had a Hacker Pschorr Weiss bier to celebrate the work done thus far. I've never done this before and you guys have been a big help!!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1090201234.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1090201292.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1090201326.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1090201364.jpg

This is what my family and neighbors were doing while I was in the garage!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1090201437.jpg

Good job, Art!
It feels good to get through the first drop. I did mine this winter after my Dad passed away. (Good therapy for me.)My wife couldn't help because she was caring for our just born son at the time. Don't have any friends I could call to help out so I did it all by myself from start to finish. Now I am more "in tune" with the car. Anyway, good luck and holler if you need some assistance from the board.
Wayne

Harbor freight didn't take it back, that's why you are defending it, right? :D

Seriously, if you have to take the muffler off to make it work, it isn't a great setup. Taking the muffler off isn't needed for many repairs where the drivetrain comes out. And if it is needed, it is so much more fun on the engine stand!

I am just still pissed that you cringed when you saw my home made POS dolly.:p

GeorgeSmileWavy

I can't get either of the 19mm motor mount nuts to come off!!

Does anyone have a secret to loosening the motor mount nuts? I've sprayed penetrating oil, etc on them, but I can't get them to budge.... I can't go any further until I get these suckers off....

Has the tension been taken off them by jacking up the engine?

Colin,
No, it hasn't. That must be the answer!

Geeze the suspense is killing me!!
PS Give your lovely wife a beer to calm her nerves when crawling under the car!

I hope there aren't any nuts on your motor mounts. You meant bolt, right? Do you have an impact? That would help. :D

George

Colin,
I just placed the ATV jack under the engine and jacked it up to get the tension off the motor mounts and they still won't budge!

I guess it's a bolt (I've never done this before), but I don't have impact tools, just combo wrenches, flare nut wrenches, etc...

lefty->loosey :D

Mine came off pretty easily with a regular 1/2" drive socket wrench.

art, i remembering using a huge ratchet to get zoanas' motormount bolts off. it was approx 18" long. sorry, that i my only experierence with the hardware, but i seem to remember that some cars have a nut on the bottomside? right, no threaded crossbar member, but some nuts on the other side. as a matter of fact, i think zoanas' motor mounts came with the nut in the package. i hope this helps, but again my experience is limited.

cliff

Not a budge with any of my wrenches. I don't have enough room to get any leverage and the bolts just won't move! I'm afraid I'm at a "go-no go" point...

even with an extension to get the ratchet up higher? i mean we laid into it. did you peek underneath? no nut and bolt combo?

dont make me come over there! :)

Dang Art,

I wish I were just a bit closer...I would bring over an impact and compressor....

Can you slide a length of pipe over your ratchet to add leverage?

a tire iron is like a 17 or 19 or if you've got one from a different car try it. You could also get an electric impact wrench at lowes/home depot if you dont want to spring for the compressor.

Brilliant!! Yes a four way tire iron will have a 19mm!!

Just a thought... Check that some goombah hasn't used nuts as well as a threaded engine mount bar. I've seen this once before, the nut was torqued up against the threaded mounting bar. We had to loosen the nut off before turning the bolt from the top.

Use Kroil or PB Blaster and tap the piece repeatedly with a piece of metal.

tap means tap - not beat

and repeatedly means several dozen times -- over a 24 hr period.

My neighbor came over and helped me. We got the one bolt out, but the other was impossible and was damaged, so we used a grinder to take it off. I'm going to replace the motor mounts anyway, so now the engine is down about 18", which is what you guys would call a "partial drop", but it's enough for me to reach everything I need to replace (fuel and vacuum lines behind the CIS hardware near the firewall. Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!

Jerry,
Thanks for the very kind offer. I used a length of pipe over a 1/2 inch drive 19mm socket wrench and my neighbor (both of us pulling on it) were able to break one side free but the other side required the dreaded grinder!!