I just can't see using a chisel to pull off the dogteeth. I'm surprised chiseling would even work. The tolerances are just too tight and it's not worth the blood plus the abuse you're gonna subject each gear to. Take it to a local pcar mechanic or porsche shop like jw's that has the tool like Chris shows and pay a few bucks to have to old ones pulled off and the new ones pressed on. You'll be much happier.

Dan,

What's the status? Enquiring minds want to know!!!

Randy

Thanks for asking -- nice to know someone cares! :) Still slowly chiseling away, not making any progress at all on #2. Tomorrow I'll call the nearest Porsche shop, but I doubt they have the tool -- it's a small shop, and I bet if they have to rebuild a tranny, they just ship the whole thing out. This is also the shop that stripped out several bolts that I know about, and prolly several that I don't, and put duct tape on A/C hoses, etc., so I wouldn't trust them out of my sight. The next nearest would be Tacoma, at which point I may as well ship it across the Puget Sound to John Walker and beg him to press it out.

Finally found someone to borrow a vice from so I could remove the ultra-massive nut from the input shaft -- I ended up actually mounting the nut in the vice (loosely, like a really big adjustable wrench mounted on the workbench, conceptually) and using a monster pipe-wrench on the clutch-end of the shaft to torque it off. Getting it back on should be just as much fun. :)

I'm going to put on some bearskins now so I can make gutteral noises while banging my transmission parts into a piece of scrap metal ala JWW's "inertia" method. (grunt grunt)

Thanks again for the help; ya'll are awesome.


Dan

:confused:

Dan, I'm confused...I think!

You mentioned that your just now heading out to use JW's "Inertia Method" of disassembly? Didn't you already have 1st/2nd gear apart? Or are you using JW's tried and true method on 3rd/4th? Perhaps your plan of taking 2nd to a shop is best. Mine came apart pretty easily, with a little smacking around that is. But still, Like Steve W said, you don't wanna mess anything up.

Hey, BTW, I'll be heading out your way next month. Where abouts are you located. We'll most likely be spending our time between the Yelm/Ranier area and up around Gig Harbor. Would be great to meet some PNW Pelicans.

Randy

Yup yup, took apart 1/2 with inertia a while ago, worked just great. Last night, mere moments after I wrote that post, I battered the pieces off of 3/4. Now I have a Genuine Porsche Club, with which to beat down the neighbor's dog. I may not ever be able to put this puzzle back together again, so I'm looking for alternate uses...

Anyhow, I can't manage to get 2, 3, or 4 synchro hubs removed to save my life. Chiseled away until nearly midnight last night. Those darned Germans seem to have gotten the tolerances just exactly right on these little buggers ... Time to start calling shops.

I'm in Silverdale, which is straight across the water from Seattle. The PNW Pelicans are an amiable crowd; we'll generally throw parties at the drop of a hat, for no particular reason. Drop a post in the OT section. Anyhow, I'd love to meet you, if you're in the area. What are you doing out here, BTW? Sounds almost like a vacation?


Dan

I used an unconventional means of removing the synchro hubs... as described here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/146692-915-rebuild-update.html#post1148368

Eugene -- I like your technique, and remember seeing it when I was hunting for ways to do this. Something else that was suggested just today was using a gear puller, which is a lot more commonly available. Don't know if it'd work, but I may know someone who has one that I could borrow for a few minutes for free. :)

Thanks again for all the help, everyone. Still plugging along ...

Dan

Did you get them apart?

Randy

/hanging head in shame/ I gave up and took 'em to the local machine shop yesterday. The guy scratches his head and says he can have them apart by tomorrow afternoon, for $20 each. (sigh) Not optimal, but better than trying to beat out German precision with a wood chisel. :( I couldn't find anyplace closer than Tacoma (which is about an hour drive from here) who had the tools to do it correctly, and $60 for 2-3-4 is a lot cheaper than $200 for the tools, plus finding a vice (no workbench in my mini-garage) and a press to do it correctly.

I'll order the rest of the parts tonight, then it's just a matter of putting it all back together. I'll be using a bunch of your pictures, BTW -- thanks for the detailed photo-documentary. I also have a whole sequence of my own that I just processed yesterday afternoon (old-fashioned film camera, ya know). That should help to make sure I get it just right. When I get some time, I'll scan a few of those to show what dog-teeth _aren't_ supposed to look like. :)

Putting it together is going to be a long slow super-careful process. I'm pretty particular about getting the details right, making sure all the parts are clean, etc. There's a couple of trips down to the local hardware store scheduled already to replace random nuts and washers that have succumbed to rust. Of course, once it's all back together, I get to work on all the "while you're in there" projects. Adjust the valves, clean out the engine bay and engine, replace some CV boots, etc. The suspense is killing me, though. Will it go back together right? Will I get the detents right? Will it ever run again? Will I end up parting out my Porsche on eBay? What does it shift like when all the parts are new? Aaargh!


Dan

No need for shame, Dan, you're doing it, you're really doing it!

Is your guy taking them apart AND putting them back together for $20.00 a piece. That would be sweet.

Oh, you mentioned a "long slow super-careful process" in putting it all back together. Don't be surprised if/when it's all back together a lot quicker than you thought it would be. The parts practically put themselves together. You'll be motoring around in your P-Car sooner than you think.

Randy

edit: And YES! Pics, post some pics!!!! :D

Let me tell you, I know the feeling. I spent the majority of my time waiting for parts. I found myself going out into the garage and just staring at it, then looking for something I could do. I then proceeded to take out my perfectly good alternator to clean the fan and housing, and destroyed my alternator bearings getting it out. When you finally get the thing back together and take it for that first drive, it will put the biggest smile on your face. I had "perm-a-grin" for a week. It does take 1st and 2nd a while to get broken in after the rebuild, but I still get a big smile when it just slides right into gear every time now.

When I put my dog teeth back on the gear I heated them in an oven then used a farily large vice to press them on. Diddn't have any trouble doing it that way. I was also suprised how much I remembered when putting it all back together. Once you understand how everything works, it just makes sense.

I'm sure your confidence is well placed, but it's still a little nerve-wracking, looking at the boxes of parts that used to be my transmission. It's like "Once and Future Tranny" (I hope).

But the good folks at Pelican say that even in my remote location, all of the parts ought to arrive by Monday.

In the meantime, I thought I'd post a couple of the pics from the event.

First, my memory pic for most of the internals. This shot covers both the input and output shaft, as well as the two shift selector fork doodads.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1091070421.jpg

Second, my memory pic for the 1st gear; note the missing dogteeth:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1091070487.jpg

Finally, the gratuitous "I dropped my engine look at me look at me!" shot:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1091070604.jpg


Thanks again for all the help, everyone. I never would have even attempted this without the people of this board. :)


Dan

That is so true! Like I said earlier in this thread. You'll really be amazed at how fast and easy the parts go back together. It went so fast for me I was thinking I forgot something. Double-checked and triple-checked, and everything was where it was supposed to be. Honestly, it took nowhere near as long as it did when I was taking it apart.

Dan, the pics look great! Next to all the help I received from the guys here on Pelican, my pics were my most valuable "tool". Kinda hard to not have that big wall-to-wall grin after you drop that engine, isn't it? :D

Good luck, man! C'mon, Monday!!!!! ;)

Randy

Might take a little longer to get all the parts than I had hoped. I just remembered this morning that I had planned on putting in the Wevo XT-032 Bearing Retainer Plate, as it's a recommended upgrade for the internals. It'll ship today, but that still means middle-late next week before it shows. Aargh.

One more question, before I actually start piecing stuff together: All this talk of detents has me worried, you see, because I don't understand at all. I've pulled the caps and springs, but the actual metal pill that serves as the detent doesn't seem like it's moving anywhere, in any of the detent slots. Can someone spell out "How to not dork up your detents" one more time, 'coz I'm just totally not getting it.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

those are not the detents you have to worry about. there are 2 others, one in the diff housing that needs to be between the two shift shafts, and one in the intermediate housing, in the flat end, which needs to be under the shift shaft, not toward the outside. they are contained in a drilling with a mushroom cap on the outside. they can't go anywhere, but they can slide up toward the cap and become useless as a locking device to keep two shafts from moving at once.

Dan,

The images below were pulled from a Tech Article written mostly by Marcesq. I used this article quite a bit when doing my rebuild. It was pretty informative.

Drawing from Marcesq
http://www.pelicanparts.com/motorcit...sq3/915042.jpg

There are 3 detentes, 2 Horizontal (Green arrow shows lower of 2) and 1 vertical (Blue arrow). Make sure the vertical one is between the 2 shift rod holes and that the 2 horizontal ones are pushed back into their bores.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/motorcit...sq3/915034.jpg

This is a pic from I was working mine showing how the detent slipped from between the two shift rod holes. It MUST go in the bore that runs BETWEEN the holes.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1091134283.jpg

Hope this helps!

Randy

Ok, I think that clears it up. I was confused about which detents were which, I think. As soon as I can manage to pick the lock and unchain myself from this silly desk, I'll go home and take another look at it. Then I'll dink around with the shift rods for a while and try to figure out how to screw it up and engage two gears at once. Once I understand that, the whole thing will click (hopefully). :) Thanks a heap, guys!

Dan

Hang in there. As everyone has said, it really does go back together pretty easily. You're aware of the detent problem that catches a few folks. Also, make sure you put the reverse light pin in the correct orientation or the lights will be stuck on. Ask me how I know!

As some one else metioned, it does take a few miles to break everything in and make it shift properly.

It's a good time to install a new insulation pad in the engine compartment.

Are you installing a new clutch and pressure ploate while you are in there? Ought to get new lock washers for the CV joints too.

Regards,

Jerry Kroeger

I don't think I'll install a new clutch/pressure plate -- the PO had that done by a local shop last March, so I figure those are mostly OK. I do still intend to inspect the parts while they're out (just to be safe), but I'm not currently planning on replacing them. CV joint lock washers were in an order earlier this week, along with two new boots. Thanks for the reminders; I'm wide open for other thoughts on stuff I've missed, at this point.

BTW, you might be a Pelican if you make the decision to drive 6 hours to see your family for a weekend because you haven't celebrated your kid brother's B-day in longer than you can remember, your Dad is doing a big preaching gig, and you're bummed out about it because you lose "a whole weekend" working on the Porsche. (sigh)

Thanks again, all,

Dan

Ok, still waiting for parts.

I have all of the important bits -- the new bearing retainer plate (Wevo) arrived yesterday, along with all of the sliders (1-2, 3-4), synchro hubs (1-4), brake bands (1-5), and thrust/anchor blocks (1-5, except for the ones that Pelican doesn't carry).

But I dorked up the input shaft nut. Just to make sure I've got the right part, that's the "shouldered M30 nut," right? It's part #OEM-99903403300, which supercedes 915.302.281.00? I ordered the one that mounts on the output shaft, thinking it was the input shaft one. Aargh.

Not that anyone can look at my stack of parts from there and tell whether or not I'm missing anything, but ... am I missing anything else?


Thanks again for all the help, all. While I'm waiting, I should note that the valve adjustment is a lot easier with the engine on the floor. :)

Dan