Dan,

Looks like the show is about to begin. Good luck!!!

One thing to ask about, do you have the copper gasket spray and Loctite 574 for when you put the case back together. The spray you can pick up at any auto parts store. The Loctite, if you don't have it, is difficult to find. You may have to check your local Porsche wrench, or order some from our host. Don't forget the Swepco! Consummables always seem to be the overlooked items we end up needing the most.

Randy

Thanks, good catch, no loctite. I've got 2 gallons of Swepco 201, and did in fact find the copper gasket spray at my local auto shop.

My search results from our host aren't coming up with anything conclusive for Loctite 574. Is it the same as Permatex Orange High Temp (81422, here at Pelican, or locally available this afternoon even)? Or maybe the Wurth Self-Levelling Epoxy Seam Sealer (WRTH-89391030)? How about Curil-T (PEL-246948)?

While I'm asking stupid questions about consumables -- should I put any kind of antiseize on the bits and pieces? The machine shop that dismantled my sychro hubs was kind enough to put anti-seize on the gears; I'm not sure if I should carefully remove that with some WD-40. All of the nuts and bolts external to the tranny, of course, get hit with anti-seize or loctite, but the internals?

Once again, many thanks -- I owe ya'll a couple of beers. :)

Dan

I don't know why you would want anti-sieze on the syncro hubs. I would remove that. I was under the impression when rebuilding mine that I didn't want anything but swepco floating around in there. The copper gasket spray is good stuff, and very inexpensive. I only used loctite (high temp type) on the bolts for the shift fork guide fork, but mine was loose to begin with. After fumbling around with the paper gasket and then doing several searches, I am in favor of the Loctite 574 method. The paper gasket only seems to work if you have a perfectly clean and un-scored mating surface. My guide fork access panel had been removed previously and had some very small scoring on it. No matter what I tried, it would not seal with the paper gasket and copper gasket sealer alone. I ended up scraping the paper gasket and going with the Loctite 574 (or similar). Good luck!

Dan,

Pelican carries Loctite 574 and is listed here.

The stuff is kinda pricey, but the piece of mind of having to put it together only once (without leaks) is worth it.

I ran a thin bead around ALL of the mating surfaces...just one face, and let it ooze out as I tightened it all together. You can tell you have a good bead when you have a sold "ooze" bead sticking out, like this...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1084669486.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1084721395.jpg

Maybe I used a bit too much, but I promise you, it hasn't leaked a drop! ;)

Wow, how did I not find that? I searched for exactly the same thing!

...

Alright, order for M30 shouldered nut and loctite 574 placed. I'm going to go adjust a valve or two while I'm waiting, or maybe do some more detailing and cleaning. Aargh, the suspense is killing me!! :)

Chris, roger that on the lack of internal loctiting. That's what it seemed like to me, and I was a little miffed at the machinist for assuming I'd want that, but he didn't know, and was just trying to help, so I thanked him real nice for the favor. I'll go clean that stuff off before I put the new parts back on.

Thanks again for all the help, gentlemen. I'm loving this project, and wouldn't have had half as much fun without your help. :)

Dan

Update:
I still don't understand the detentes (is that a French word? Ah, it all makes sense now!), but I think I've got them in the right places. At least, they match the pictures everybody's showing.

Lesson Learned #1: The gasket kit is a great deal. Don't order any parts that have names like "seal" or "gasket" until you've checked the gasket kit to make sure they aren't there, unless you're big into wasting money. If that's the case, you can just PayPal it to me, and you'll be just as well off as if you had ordered a bunch of seals that come in the gasket kit separately. (sigh)

Lesson Learned #2: Adjusting valves is way easier if you drop the engine. I'm spending more time cleaning the valve covers than I did adjusting the valves. I mean, it's almost trivial, with the engine on the floor. I really feel good about this valve adjustment.

Lesson Learned #3: You can't tap the dogteeth into place with a hammer. Even freezing/cooking the parts doesn't really make a difference. Randy -- pull out your "People Who Owe Me Adult Beverages" log and chalk me up for another one. :(

The next reasonably major problem is the circlips. They were a pain to get off, but getting them on is looking like even more of a pain. Any hints on how to re-install the circlips that hold all the brake bands and synchro bits together? I do have the circlip pliers, but they're not helping much... :(

One other question, and this is probably nothing -- does it matter which way the synchro bits go back into the synchro? Specifically, one side of the 5th gear anchor block has a little arrow on it. Does that face up or down? One side of the 1st and 2nd gear anchor is shiny, while the other side of each one looks rough -- which way goes up, and which goes towards the gear? Aside from the long left short right rule for putting the 1st gear back together, what other details have I missed here?

Thanks a heap, guys. Sorry it's taking so long -- I'm sure the suspense is killing you. Ok, I'm sure the suspense is killing _me_. :)

Dan

Sealing
 

It's no secret that gasket surfaces have to be clean, flat and gouge free. Scratches that go from the inside to the outside like this one make a nice path for fluid to leak:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1091706587.jpg

After putting a little epoxy over the scratch you can sand it smooth. It looks like there is still a scratch in this picture but you're actually seeing the darker epoxy filling the scratch.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1091708356.jpg

The paper gaskets will tend to wick fluid so rubbing some sort of sealant into them will keep that from happening and help fill any gaps. I rub the sealant into the gasket before I put it on.
I clean both sealing surfaces and check for any nicks that have raised the metal around them. Then I clean the sealing surfaces with brake kleen. If you're worried about big gaps, Loctite 518 fills larger ones than 574. I've switched to Curil-T (a non-hardening sealant) for easier cleanup later.

Speaking of which, for later disassembly convenience, I spray the case surface that has the studs in it with some WD-40 and wipe it clean. This will somewhat inhibit the sealant's grip on that side of the case joint so next time I disassemble this transmission, the gasket will stick to the easy to clean, studless case surface.

-Chris

Dan,

I know what you mean about the circlips. What a PITA!!! :(

I used a pair of snap-ring pliers with 90 degree tips. this made it a bit easier. Also, don't be afraid to use some muscle on them, they can take it.

I found that if I was able to just catch enough of a bite under the lip where the circlip would remain in place, I was able to use a screw driver to work it the rest of the way around. They can be a pain, but they're not impossible.

Randy

I used the exact same method Randy used. A good solid pair of snap ring pliers is key. Once you get the clip started, you can get a screw driver to follow it around and it should snap on. Also be careful, I had a circlip take off towards my head a few times.

Wow -- Chris, great pictures! My gasket seating surfaces look reasonably clean -- no gouges, like in your picture. While we're on gaskets -- I have the copper spray and the 574, am I supposed to use both, or just one? I'm a little confused...

Randy and Chris -- roger that. :( That's exactly what I was trying, and completely failing. After about half an hour on the same circlip, I figured there had to be some Old Mechanic's Trick I was missing. Oh, and Chris, as to that "taking off towards your head" business, the shop manual does recommend eye protection, and they're totally serious. I launched one 30 feet out of the garage while I was taking them apart! :)

Thanks a bunch, all. You guys are amazing.

Dan

Dan,

the "trick" I used to keep the circlips from "flying around the room" was simply to place my palm looslely over the setup. I could hold it in place and was actually able to use my palm to "assist" the circlip onto the gear. Just be careful you don't pinch yourself. :eek:

Oh, and squeeze really hard on the pliers...like I said above, they can take it.

Randy

Alright -- an update, for those of you following along at home, finally. I finally had some time to get back on this project after work on Friday. The big thing was getting synchro hubs back on gears, and I had determined that the hot/cold/hammer-tap technique just wasn't going to do it for me.

So I started calling shops. "Yup, we have a press, but we don't do transmission work." Um, I don't need 'transmission work,' as such, I just need two parts pressed together. "Nope, that's tranny work, won't touch it." Finally found a shop that works weekends, but only the tow truck actually works. Aargh!

Next step, don't know why I didn't think of this sooner -- I went over to the base Auto Hobby Shop. Those guys have all kinds of random tools. "I need a press to put these two parts together," I explained to the elderly Fillipino behind the counter. "Oooh, hmmm," he scratches his chin, then faster than I could have possible understood, even if I spoke Tagalog fluently, "You looka da needa suko pa te." Uh ... what? We went back and forth, and finally decided that the press broke last week, so the Hobby Shop doesn't have one anymore.

So I went home and worked on CV boots for a bit. Then cleaned valve cover gaskets, and re-checked my valve clearances, again. You see, when I get stuck on this project, and can't figure out where to go next, I clean the engine, or find some other "while I'm in there" project to work on. You've never seen such a clean engine in your life. (sigh) Either way, there was no way I was getting those babies together without a press, and nobody was answering phones on the weekend, so I figured I'd just have to call around on Monday morning from work, covertly.

In the meantime, I discovered that I needed a bench-vice to get the CV joint apart. So it's back over to the base hobby shop to apply the vice and a punch to take that sucker apart. And I said, "What the heck, while I'm here, I wonder if maybe I should just give those synchro hubs a shot." As I happened to have them in the car already, with the intent of dropping them off at the shop the next day, I brought them in and squeezed away -- and they came together!!!! :)

So 1, 2, 3, and 5 are together. Squeezing 4 in the vice just wasn't working. I mean, really. I was hanging all of my 160lbs from the cheater bar with no movement at all. Crazy! But now, I only have one left that needs to go to a shop somewhere. I also have my CV boots ready to go, and with 1 and 2 ready, I can put that shaft back together. Woohoo!!!


In case you missed it, I'm stoked. Thanks, once again, for all the encouragement and wisdom. Without your guidance, I'd be in real trouble! Now let's see how far I can get before I have to go back to that silly "job" thing I do during the daylight hours. :)


Dan

"Job" thing? ....don't you hate those damned interruptions? :D

Sounds like things are moving along quite nicely, Dan. Looks like you should have First/Second all put together tonight and by tomorrow night, you should have Third/fourth. Just a matter of slapping it back together and going for a drive! :)

When it comes time to put the shafts back into the tranny, here is a tip I believe Chris Bennet posted...wrap the two shafts with a towel to have a little better control while lining them up into the transmission. (When the time comes, you'll see what I mean.)

Keep up the good work, Dan, you're just about to turn the corner. You'll be really amazed at how fast it goes back together....even with double and triple checking everything.

Randy

if you file down the "swage" slightly, you may have more luck with the vise method. the original teeth were swaged after being pressed on. look at the bare toothless gear and notice the burr on the top of the inner teeth that the hub attaches to.

Sounds awsome Dan, I did mine the same way with a vice and they went together PERFECTLY. Give it a try again and rotate the gear/teeth 90 degrees and it may just pop right in...good luck bro!

You might also try heating the syncro hubs before pressing them on. I used a gas grill to heat the hubs, then tapped them on with a piece of wood and hammer, and used the vice to finish the job. Sounds like you are moving along quickly. Just wait until you make that first flawless 1 - 2 shift, you will be grinning from ear to ear!

I flipped the ratchet this afternoon, actually. I totally stopped taking stuff apart, and switched the ratchet from "Taking Apart" to "Putting Back Together." That's monumental, in any project. :)

As to the last synchro, I realized I was being an idiot, and had gotten it slightly off center, rotationally. I was pressing the splines together incorrectly. No wonder if wouldn't go. //Feeling stupid, now.// Now I just have to find another vice to push it together with, knowing exactly how silly I am. As to the others, no heat, dressing of the swage, or anything else was required. Drop 'em into the vice, squeeze away, and pop, in they go. Too easy. I have your ideas fresh on the back of mind, though, for tomorrow afternoon when I go "vice hunting" again. :) Thanks, all.

Dan

//Dreaming of that flawless 1-2 shift, ooh...

Here are some pictures of what John was talking about:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1092051767.jpg

A Dremel tool does a quick job with plenty of control:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1092051785.jpg

-Chris

Thanks for the pics, Chris. I don't know where you come up with these amazing closeup detail shots.

The picture shows dressing the low spot between two teeth. I was imagining dressing the high spot, the tooth. In your picture, there's a visible lip at the edges of the teeth. Mine have that, but it seems a bit smaller and less pronounced than the one in your picture. Also, I don't think I have a noticeable lip at the edge of the low spot. Should I just dressing the low spot, or the high as well? Are those little lips at the edges of the teeth bad?

I don't know where you come up with these fantastic closeups, Chris, but thanks a bunch.

Dan

No, you are right. I was trying to show the high spot and the Dremel at the same time and so I placed the Dremel tip beside the burr. If I took the picture with the Dremel in the actual working position the tooth would be hidden by the Dremel tip. Sorry if the picture was misleading.
-Chris