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-   -   915 rebuild questions (several) (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/173983-915-rebuild-questions-several.html)

djmcmath 08-13-2004 09:31 PM

Um ... well, uh, no, not exactly. Today's events read like an episode from "How Not To Rebuild a 915..."

(sigh)

I haven't had time to work on it all week long, but that's ok, because I've been waiting on parts. Finally got 4th gear back from the shop after work today, then rebuilt the main shaft. Checked it twice against the manual, had my neighbor look over it once, then took it over to the Auto Hobby Shop on base, torqued the M30 nut into place (166ft-lbs sure is a bunch), then mashed the hole in real good, to make sure it'd never come off again.

Then back home to put the pinion shaft together. Doop-de-doop, gear 'n' bearing 'n' thrust washer ... thrust washer ... Hmmm, must be a thrust washer around here _somewhere_. Took apart the whole garage, dug through all my boxes of little parts, scratched my head, then looked at the main shaft. Sure enough, even with all the double-checking and looking at all my pictures, I managed to double up one of the washers on the main shaft. (Me: blinking stupidly, looking at the main shaft, looking back at the book, blinking a few more times stupidly, answering dumb question from the neighbor, "So how's it coming?")

(sigh) So it's back over to the Hobby Shop in the morning to take that nut off, remove that one washer, and put the nut back on. Then, if I don't find any more parts that I need to replace and wait for (like say, that M30 nut that I'm hoping I don't have to destroy to remove), then I should be able to get it back together tomorrow, and put back into the car on Sunday. (fingers crossed) Wish me luck?

But there shouldn't be any interruptions -- no work this weekend, no major family emergencies scheduled, nothing exceptional -- just car time. So it's to bed early tonight, and back at it bright and early in the morning.

Thanks again for the encouragement; I'll get through this for sure.

Dan

djmcmath 08-14-2004 05:33 PM

Saturday evening update, for those of you following along at home:
Spent the whole day, mostly making pretty good progress. Disassembled the input shaft, pulled off the washer, and reassembled with no real difficulties. Assembled the output shaft, put 'em both together and installed into the diff. Yes, I checked the detents, like 6 times. But then, I also checked the input shaft lineup like 6 times, so I'm not at all sure I've got it right (sigh)

Anyhow, got the intermediate casing cleaned up and re-installed, everything neatly torqued in place -- and a neat Randy-esque orange bead of Loctite 574 peaking out the edge. :) Very happy, at that point.

Then started putting the 5/R stuff together. Neat, easy, no problems. Apply the big nut to the output shaft, goes on real easy, my room-mate helped me torque it down (191ft-lbs is roughly equivalent to my 130lb room-mate standing on the end of an 18in breaker bar, by my math).

Then the castelated nut -- but it wouldn't thread on. Seems that somewhere in the process of assembling and disassembling that shaft all those times, I managed to mash the end slightly out of shape. It's not so bad that it's obvious to the naked eye, but if you look real close, the holes for the drift pin are slightly flattened, and one or two spots on the threads are just ever so slightly wavey. (sigh)

So now it's off to figure out what size that shaft is, and find an appropriately sized die to re-straighten them. Then it'll be re-drilling that hole ever-so-slightly bigger. Aargh.


Well, that's all for now. Stop me before I do something really stupid. Like try to rebuild my own transmission. One of the neighbors wandering by mentioned that he was interested in buying a Porsche. I was this close to offering him the whole pile for whatever he had in his pockets. When I realized that there isn't anyplace in Kitsap "Godforsake" County that's liable to have anything like the die I'm looking for, I was this close to calling Chico Towing.

(phew) Glad I got that off my chest; thanks for listening. I'm going to get back to work now. :)

Dan

ChrisBennet 08-14-2004 09:36 PM

I'd skip looking for a Metric die in size "fricken huge". Get a "thread repair file" or a small triangle file and repair the threads manually.
-Chris

rcecale 08-14-2004 11:59 PM

Chris is right! (As if that was a surprise!:rolleyes: )

Anyway, Dan, try picking up a small triangular file and clean up those threads with it. You can probably find a set of Jewelers Files at Home Depot, or Lowe's. I've got a set that I've had for years and they come in handy for this type of "emergency". Used to use them a lot on Hornets when I was in the Corps. You'll be amazed at how easy it is.

Keep at it...you're almost home!!!

Randy

beepbeep 08-15-2004 01:06 AM

Hmm...you might want to buy a decent torque wrench. I dunno, torquing those things by letting roomate hand on lon bars sounds a bit unprecise.

djmcmath 08-15-2004 07:57 AM

Hmm, good call, Chris. M18x1.50 isn't a particularly common size, especially if you live several hours out past "the boonies." :) Thanks for the tip.

Dan

djmcmath 08-15-2004 07:58 AM

Oh, and Randy, I don't know whether I should be encouraged or horrified that you applied a file to our nation's F/A-18s. :)

rcecale 08-15-2004 08:18 AM

Be afraid, Dan...be VERY afraid! ;)

Nahhh, worked on military aircraft for 20 years. A-4 Skyhawks, F-4 Phantoms and F/A-18 Hornets.

I'm no stranger to mechanical work. I've turned wrenches with some of the best of 'em. It kinda cracks me up when I see people talk about torquing nuts. I seem to recall the forward attach bolt for the Horizontal Stabilator Servocylinder is required to be 400 to 500 Ft/Lbs. Now THAT, my friend, is some torque!

Rigging the landing gear system....that was some involved work. The Leading Edge Flap Hydraulic Drive Unit...another mechanical marvel. Felt right at home with ALL of this stuff.

Like I said, wrench turning is nothing new to me. Amazing, isn't it? All that experience on jets and hardly any on cars. But I'm getting there. :)

Randy

djmcmath 08-16-2004 08:12 AM

Seems like an aviation mechanic who's worked on the finest stuff America's military has to offer can't be too challenged by an old hopped-up Volkswagen. But then, you could say the same about a nuclear engineer who's fully trained and certified by Naval Reactors. (sigh)

Monday morning update:
Spent most of yesterday afternoon repairing an emergent plumbing problem*, so very little real progress. I did manage to get to Home Depot and find a set of little bitty files. It seems that if I had a clue, it would have probably gone a lot quicker, and I would have done less damage to the threads. As it was, it took me about 2 hours to get the threads cleaned up enough that the nut would go back on. I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling that I've totally done the right thing, but the nut went on cleanly, so it can't be that bad.

Either way, it's torqued in place, now. This week is looking painful with work, so I probably won't have any real updates until this weekend, again. It's so frustrating, being this close, but not having time to finish it!!! Aargh!!!

Thanks again for all the help, everyone.

Dan


*One of the single mothers in the church called late Saturday saying her water had stopped working, and that there was a small geyser in her yard. Seems that a $1.39 brass fitting connecting the pump to the regulator had given out, and was no longer passing pressure to the regulator. The reg stayed on, allowing the pump to reach dead-head of about 100psi. Fortunately, the hose connecting the pump in the wellhouse to the house was joined halfway down the line with an el-cheapo bit of piping connector that gave out before the pump overheated and died. It's like a fuse, except not so easy to replace. Either way, here's me in said yard with a shovel, hunting for an elusive piece of hose connector under 3 feet of wet dirt. :)

rcecale 08-16-2004 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by djmcmath
But then, you could say the same about a nuclear engineer who's fully trained and certified by Naval Reactors. (sigh)
Could and WOULD! ;) Geeze, Dan, I didn't realize you were one of those "Brainiacs"

Anywhooo, back to your tranny. Since you were able to torque the nut back onto those threads, I'd say you got it. Nothing to worry about.

Randy

Porsche_monkey 08-16-2004 09:19 AM

Off-topic morality inquiry;

If she wasn't a single mother would you still have repaired it? :)

djmcmath 08-16-2004 11:22 AM

Yup yup yup ... while I'm sitting here at my day job, I'm wondering to myself what the next major pitfall will be. It seems like the engine and tranny ought to mate up real nice, 'coz they came apart so clean. The pleasant surprise of the whole deal was learning that when the PO replaced the clutch, he also replaced the flywheel and pressure plate, and the name on the front is "Sachs." Happy happy joy joy. :)

Anyhow, I've reviewed my Stack of Parts That Aren't In The Car Yet (SoPTAITCY) and I think I know where they all go, and can't see any more major problems from here. Does anybody have any warnings? Stuff I ought to double-check before rehanging the tranny and reinstalling the engine? Major stuff that you screwed up, perhaps? Keep in mind you're posting to a guy who miscounted washers (1 washer, 2 washers ... good, that's 1 washer), so no suggestion is too stupid for me. :)

Thanks again, all.

Dan

john walker's workshop 08-16-2004 12:30 PM

make sure the release fork hooks the t/o bearing when you slip the trans on.

rcecale 08-16-2004 01:57 PM

Yes, sir....that happened to me. Leave the starter off so you can use the hole to guide the fork into position.

Also, make sure any and all wires or vacuum lines that are supposed to connect underneath the car are hanging down so you can reach them. It can be a pain trying to work them down between the engine and firewall once you're all bolted up...ask me how I know. ;)

Randy

djmcmath 08-16-2004 02:35 PM

Good thoughs, both. I already have the starter mounted, so I'll pull that off. I knew I'd have some difficulty lining it up, but hadn't really thought through how I'd actually do the deed; thanks for the idea, Randy.

Wires 'n' Hoses, got it. FWIW, the 911 is a lot easier to work with than the Honda I had to swap an engine into last fall. Wiring and hosing designed by bureaucrats!! Aargh.

Um, one more stupid question comes to mind. I keep hearing about Schnorr/Schoor/Scnor (sp?) lock washers for the CV joints, but when I dismantled mine, no such lock washers could be found. I just had the plates, one for each pair of bolts. I've ordered a whole pile of lock washers ($.25 per? Can't lose...), but I'm not positive they should be there, as they weren't there before.

Oh, and while I'm asking stupid questions ... CV joint: I replaced all the CV boots, and I'm trying to put everything back together. The left side inner joint isn't coming together correctly at all, though. I've mounted the axle in a vice and beaten the living snot out of it with a hammer and punch, but can't seem to make it go any farther together. It's almost, but not quite close enough to get the circlip in place. I mean, it's really close, and I've put an awful lot of force into getting it there. What am I doing wrong? Why won't it go all the way down? The lazy part of me says that if I've applied this much force to get it on, there's no way it's coming off, and the circlip isn't going to help any even if I could get it on. The rational part of me says I need to take it to the local machine shop to get it pressed fully into place. Which one of me is right?


Thanks again, all. I'll see if I can borrow a digital camera to get some gratuitous engine install pics when I get it back together. :)


Dan

john walker's workshop 08-16-2004 03:01 PM

clamp the axle in a vise install the snap ring as far as it will go, and with a big hammer and big punch, give the inner race a sharp hit to compress the cupped washer and seat the snap ring.
schnorr washers are good.

djmcmath 08-16-2004 08:02 PM

I'll give that a shot, John. I can get into the hobby shop (which has a vice) on Wednesday after work. Thanks for the tip.

As to the rest of the project, I stuffed the pin into the input shaft, closed up the front cover on the tranny, replaced the shift-fork/inspection cover, and hung the darn thing. I'll second Randy's note that the 915 is darned stinking goldern heavy, especially after trying for an hour or so to get that thing on there. Having the starter out was invaluable, so I could check the lineup of the throwout bearing. Thanks for that tip, Randy. :) I did, BTW, almost exactly what you did -- work on it for a while (like an hour), get frustrated, stop, have a drink, go back at it, and connect it within a few minutes. Crazy.

Anyhow, the tranny is hung. Plugs and dizzy cap are re-installed. Starter is installed, complete with wires. The engine is now, as far as I can tell, a complete unit, clean and ready for installation into an appropriate donor vehicle. The anticipation is killing me, but I know I won't have real time to work until like Friday. Aargh!

Here's my procedure, for posterity:
1 - Set up the tranny at about the right level, approximately in line with the engine. I set it up on wooden blocks on my creeper, so I could roll it around.
2 - Line it up. Inspect the lineup to make sure that it'll go straight on. Up and down is more important than left-right.
3 - Roll it most of the way into place. Engage the bolts, but only a little bit. At this point, check the t/o bearing engagement. It should be just out far enough to catch the edge of the bearing. It makes sense looking at it when it's right, trust me. You can move the fork by reaching through the starter hole and looking through the hole in the bell housing opposite it.
4 - Roll the tranny into the engine. It should go easily. If it doesn't, you've misaligned the t/o fork or the clutch. Pull it out, go back to step 3.

Did I miss anything?

Dan

rcecale 08-17-2004 01:50 AM

Dan,

Somewhere in those 4 steps you forgot to add this 5th step....

Don't forget your spinach! That tranny DOES get heavy!!!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1092736244.jpg

Randy

old_skul 08-17-2004 06:14 AM

Keep the updates coming. I actually get the urge to eat popcorn while reading this.

djmcmath 08-17-2004 06:26 AM

LOL, Randy. Funny follow-on to that: This morning when I came to work, one of my chief selectees had a tiny stack of flash-cards. (In the Navy, when you select for E-7, "chief," there's an indoctrination process that includes fund-raisers, uniform training, and silly games. Ask no more questions, they won't tell me because I'm not a chief.) The first card on the stack was popeye. I pointed and laughed, commenting how nice it would have been to be popeye, and I got a puzzled look, "But Sir, that's a Junior Officer -- you _are_ popeye!"

I bet that was a lot funnier if you could have been there. (sigh)

BTW, the only reason I walked away last night (aside from the fact that it was getting dark) was because I nearly rolled the engine off the dolly. When I get tired, I do stupid things, like try to push the engine under the car from the top of the engine, rather than by pulling carefully on the dolly. I managed to get away with only scraping a few minor parts (didn't like that exhaust tip anyway), with no major damage. (phew)

Anyhow, thanks for the encouragement, Mark (et al). :)


Dan


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