value of 72s with non original motor

[dmcummins]

I have a 72S with a 73S engine. Iv'e been trying to put everything back as much as I can to original. Of coarse the original motor is long gone so its never going to be a #'s original car.

I'm wondering how much this affects the value of the car. The engine currently has webers and a electromotive ignition. I do have the MFI and distributor for the car. I'm thinking about putting the MFI and original ignition back on the car in order for it to be more correct for the car.

If the value of the car is shot because of the unoriginal motor I wonder if I would be better off selling some of the parts and just not worrying about it.

[svandamme]

if that picture is representative of the overal shape of the car, then i'de say it could go for 20K+ easy ( with the MFI installed and in good tune)

and i mean Euro's not Dollars, no rust , no engine leaks...

[jgporsche]

I have a 73S Targa. Do you have the sport seats? Look at what a pair of sport seats go for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2484733026&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

I wonder the same thing. I have a improved/rebuilt 2.7 in mine. But, I have the original engine & trans. Other than mirrors and updated rear bumper mine is original. I kept all of the original parts. Just wonder if this really hurts the value. Makes one wonder how far old "S's" will go up?

[svandamme]

Originally posted by jgporsche
Makes one wonder how far old "S's" will go up?

i've seen 'em go , Targa S 2.4 mint condition for 33000 euros

[Rot 911]

It is definitely worth more with the MFI than the Webbers. It will never sell to the concours crowd due to the no matching numbers, but will still sell in the "S" range for a 72 911 just because it is a '72.

[svandamme]

yep , there's also a market for people who like to have one as close to concours without going impractical : have it look and behave as concours... but actually drive it... those folks don't care about no matching numbers... at least not to the point that they would pay a big premium for the numbers.... they would however pay for the car beeing in tip top driveable shape...

[Zeke]

Originally posted by dmcummins

If the value of the car is shot because of the unoriginal motor I wonder if I would be better off selling some of the parts and just not worrying about it.

I wouldn't say the value is "shot" by any means. I'm not an expert or appraiser, either.

What is curious to me is what you mean by selling some parts. Do you mean to make it a track car or something? Like selling off the door pockets and other non essential pieces?

If it were me, I'd put all the pieces in question of the shelf if you are not going to run them. This is what I am doing to my S. If I ever sell it, all the original stuff will be included. I think that adds value. How much you lose by not having some things is anyone's guess.

Techweenie can say more on this if you REALLY need to know. If he doesn't see this, PM him. MikeZ too. They both watch the CA market like hawks. I can think of more: TREcup is another.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Zeke
They both watch the CA market like hawks.

the European market runs higher numbers than the american market..(then don't forget to add the exchange)
lot's of earlies are beeing exported back ...because on average , for every year around 70% was produced for and exported to the US...

[TRE Cup]

72S targa- this is a relatively rare car. Get the mfi checked out and rebuilt if needed. Make sure you have every part to it. Put the stuff on the shelf and enjoy driving the car as is with the webers.

True, it is a non matching #'s car, but as an S it is still worth a lot more than if it was powered by a T or something else. Get the rest of the parts you need to make the car as original as possible. You don't have to install them, like Zeke said, but as long as you have them is what's important. This early 911 stuff is going the way of the dodo- getting extinct or very expensive to obtain

[dmcummins]

Thanks for the replies. I just don't want to get to carried away. The car runs great now but I am thinking about putting the MFI back in. I just didn't want to put alot of money into it if there is nothing to gain.

I see what some parts are going for and I wonder if it would make more sense to just swap out some things if the value isn't there.

So do you guy's think it's about a 5K hit?

[svandamme]

personally , i have my 73 S
and although i know the value of the parts... and the market value of my car... both those prices , do not even come close to the value i place on the car...somebody could offer me 45K or more ...right here , right now ... and i wouldn't go for it...
and mine isn't even close to concours state...

5K hit for the non matching numbers?? IMHO , no way , not that much...

BTW , is the enginecase an S? do you have S cams?
if you drop the number , we can look it up in the Red Book

[dmcummins]

Here is a pic of my engine and mfi parts. I also have boxes full of other stuff. I took everything I could load up. You guys are making me feel better. I don't plan on selling the car anytime soon but I don't want to spend a premium on original parts if there is no value there.

I also have the injectors and the air cleaner. I am missing a fuel line and the MFI belt. Not sure what else I need. How do you tell if it needs a rebuild. I talked to the PO that removed it. He was not the one who sold the car to me. He said he was having trouble getting it tuned right. Either good low end or high, not both. He said when it was right it ran great. He was using it as a daily driver at the time and thought the webers were easier to keep in tune. He also liked the electromotive ingition.

[Jim Richards]

Just my opinion, not to be confused with actual facts:

For every year that goes by, I believe that the market value of a numbers matching 72S will grow faster than one that doesn't match. In 1973, I think the difference would've been negligable. In 2004, I believe it's significant (maybe only 80% of numbers matching car value). Why do people check this when making a purchase? Why do people do a Carfax? Why do people look for records? Because they peceive it results in a more valuable car (as well as better maintained) that will fetch better resale after their period of ownership (stewardship) expires.

This numbers matching question might be answered better by the 356 crowd, as they've seen more time go by.

[dmcummins]

I had the numbers checked before I bought it and it is a 73S motor. Again I talked with the PO who owned the car for a number of years before he sold it to the person I bought it from. He spun a bearing in the original motor and had a new motor rebuilt on a 73S case as this was supposadly a stronger case at the time, it's the 7R case. He also had new 2.2S pistons and cylinders installed and some other mods per Bruce Andersons book out at the time. It has the new tensioners and turbo valve covers. I don't think the guy did it on the cheap but I have no records and it has alot of miles on it. It does run like a top, doesn't smoke or burn much oil.

[svandamme]

MFI stuff looks pretty decent, look up the technical articles Check Measure and Adjust.. there's also several articles for putting a pump in storage... and back out of storage... how to clean it , lubricate it ... very good stuff

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_MFI/TipMFI.htm

it might not be as easy as just slapping the pump and the fuel lines back on the car, several parts that need to be tuned to work together...

[jluetjen]

It's a piece of junk -- not even worth the money to have a trucked away. I'll come buy and save you from it.

Seriously -- It sounds like a great car. The fact that it has a later engine (a 2.4S no less!) will hardly hurt the value with the exception of a few concourse afficianatos. Forgetaboutem! To the majority of the other people, it made the car better since it's a bigger motor, but still a legitimate S spec.

The Webers on the other hand... while a great carb -- will devalue the car and it's performance. I'd get the MFI fixed and reinstalled on the car. You will be shocked by the difference in performance it provides. Where the engine may currently be a bit flat at about 3000 RPM +/- (I'm guessing), the MFI will vastly improve the situation. You'll also pick up performance at the top end which means HP.

[dmcummins]

I know no matter how good of shape the car is in, it will never fetch top dollar. It's never going to be a low mileage all original example. And the more time that goes by the fewer of them will be around.

The PO abviously thought it was important to keep the orignal parts. I even have 5 2.4S pistons and cylinders, old bearings, boxes full of stuff I havn't even gone through yet.

I guess I'll hang on to the stuff for awhile. I drive this car every chance I get. I bought it to drive and I want it to look as close to new as I can get it without going crazy. Im not removeing and powdercoating every bolt and suspension piece. But I do want it to look good.

Obviously the engine department needs some work. I'm waiting for an excuse to drop the engine. I have a few drops here and there but nothing bad. Will I have to drop the engine to install the MFI?

[svandamme]

can't see it done without dropping... you need to put the timing belt on the cam sprocket... can't reach there without dropping

further more.. you'll have a hard time gettin the injectors and stacks and everything else built up and linked without dropping...

[dmcummins]

I actually have the check measure and adjust booklet. It came with the car. I also have what I assume is the original fuel pump. It appears that the return line has been pluged. The pump currently is full of Marvel mystery oil.

As always it seems there are varied opinions. I have done alot of work on the car, new windows out paint, seats redone, carpet, and to many other things to count. I'd just like to think I'm not getting too deep into this because it is an S.

I've got my boys tearing apart my 73t now. But with it Im not to worried about door pockets and sport seats. Ill just put on the RS door panels and buy some new seats. I havn't deceided what its going to look like but Im not worried about originality on that one.

Thanks again for your opinions. It's giving me some things to think about.

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by svandamme
can't see it done without dropping... you need to put the timing belt on the cam sprocket... can't reach there without dropping

further more.. you'll have a hard time gettin the injectors and stacks and everything else built up and linked without dropping...

Actually you can do it all without the engine drop. I know because I have done it. (A mirror makes installing the belt and timing the sprockets much easier)On the other hand, dropping the engine makes all of the installation much easier.
If you ever get serious about this let me know and I will make a trip to St. Louis to help you! By the way my first 911 was a 1972 911E. You want some entertaining reading you should read my posts from when I was first on this board and owned the E!