Spark plug smashed severe..What came likely through/contact? How much damage?

[H.G.P.]

Constant metal rap rap in no. 2 cylinder

2005 will begin my 5th year with the car. I do not mind dropping the engine (again). This will be the first I assume in internal engine damage for my car under my possession.

What likely am I looking forward to here?

Thanks

[masraum]

is it smashed or damaged from detonation? Can you try to get a clearer pic even if it's not quite as close up?

My guess is that it doesn't so much look smashed as much as melted or blown apart, and I would think that would be due to a lean cylinder, but don't take my word for it, especially since I can't really see the plug. Hopefully Warren and or JW will throw their .02 (their pounds to my lira) into the pot. Then you'll be rich with knowledge.

[H.G.P.]

The tip is mashed into the white center, and the very upper round thread of the plug has metal pieces missing. (metal chipped off in appearance)

The tip also has a number of tiny dents.

I inserted another plug in the cylinder, and the rap rap still occurs.

[Randy Webb]

- the rap rap still occurs

.... I think I would not start the engine. I'd turnit ove by hand and see if I can hear anything hitting. Perhaps a peice of valve fell off??

Also, I'd be inclined to do a leak down test & compression test.

I might use the starter to spin the motor w/no spark and listen then also.

[H.G.P.]

I've installed a clutch, new flywheel, alternator hub repair, ignition work, and other items, but nothing ever in regards to engine work in any car.

From what I've read the leakdown teat may be beyond me, so perhaps the compression test, with equipment from a local auto parts store perhaps?

Can I safely remove the upper valve cover without dropping the engine and see anything?

[H.G.P.]

When I first noticed the problem, I coasted most of the way back home. So I've started the car very minimally.

The dash compression guage reads normal during those minimal times.

One further very sad note, if I need them, I see 69 E pistons, on Wayne's rebuilding wizard, are NLA. Is this the coming end?

[Early_S_Man]

HGP,

I can't tell anything from the pic ... one in focus is needed!

My suspicion is that there is a valve head rattling around in the combustion chamber ...

Yes, you can pull both of the left side valve covers and determine if a valve head has separated ... the stem, retainer, and springs will all be loose and adrift if the worst-case scenario has happened!

At this point, I don't recommend turning the engine over by using the starter ... the #2 connecting rod could be bent if the orientation of piston, valve head, and cylinder head is aligned in the wrong way! If you turn the engine over by hand and feel any significant resistance at any point, stop immediately!

[jfpound]

If it was mine I'd probably be pulling the head for inspection of the valves/piston. It's hard for me to believe the piston isn't damaged if something crushed the plug Very sorry to see that... certainly pull the valve cover first though to see what can be learned. I'd probably get a flex-i-light thing and stick it in the plug hole to see if you can see anything...

[dickster]

yeah, my money is on a valve head or other debris floating around in there. it must be large enough that it is unable to get out through the exhaust port!

like others said don't bother turning it over - open it up.

[Rot 911]

I concur with the others, valve head broke off. Hopefully you will not need to replace that head and cylinder, but from the looks of that spark plug I suspect you will probably have to.

[sammyg2]

Here's what I would do:
turn the engine by hand until that cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke and put it in 5th gear with the parking brake on just for added safety.
Get a fitting from the local auto parts store that will screw into the spark plug hole and has a hose attached to it, then hook the hose up at an air compressor.
Put some pressure on the cylinder, it won't take much.
Make darned sure it is at TDC, and then put your ear to the exhaust pipe and listen for air. If it's an exhaust valve that is damaged you will have air going out the pipe. If it's an intake valve, you will have air going into the intake.
If you have a busted up piston you will have air escaping into the crank case.
This won't solve your problem but it will prolly tell you what you are up against.

[john walker's workshop]

get it out, and tear it down. you heard the noise, and saw the smashed plug. no sense doing any more diagnostics, they're done.

[cmcfaul]

Happened to me once. I over reved the engine by missing a shift (redline in third to second instead of fourth). The valve hit the piston and dropped into the cylinder.

The good news is that EBSracing.com offers JE pistons at a couple compression rations that are great. I put new Mahle NIckasil cylinders and 9.5 compression ration JE pistons in and the car is extremely fast and reliable.

good luck

Chris
73 911 E

[masraum]

I'd probably have to go with what JW says. If anything has been rattling around smashing the plug then the head, piston, and cylinder could be and probably is screwed. Only way to know for sure is take it apart.

This is unfortunate.

[H.G.P.]

Originally posted by john walker's workshop
get it out, and tear it down. you heard the noise, and saw the smashed plug. no sense doing any more diagnostics, they're done.

OK:

Four preliminary questions:

1. I believe my green shroud is held on by rivets or something, how to remove?

2. Can I do this job without removing the cam/timing chains? ie. photo #2 in Projects 101 Engine teardown.

3. Will the majority of the damage be visible by just removing the valve covers? and

4. What happens or can I do as are these parts NLA????? This is a 1969 911E


Thanks for all the replies. Out to pull the motor.................

[masraum]

1. Don't know, but I think it's screwed bolted on, not rivetted, but I could be wrong.

2. I don't think so.

3. No, you'll need to remove that head which, I believe, means you'll have to remove the cam carrier.

4. I don't think you'll have a problem getting parts.

[john walker's workshop]

bolted/no/no/you may have to source a piston/cylinder and head, but that's the fun of it. my want ads on the for sale/wanted forum usually turn up something.

[Randy Webb]

This is a good time to clean up the engine compartment, or repaint it.

It also might be time for that 6.6L transplant....

Sorry to hear you have this problem....

[masraum]

Wow, Randy!! 6.6L, that's a 400 right? Are you suggesting a SBC, or a 400 out of a pontiac? Hmm, think that may be a 403 or 402. wow, a big block. You're really trying to shake the boat!!

[Randy Webb]

hahaha... just a typo..... started the wine tasting early