dazed and confused (pt 1)

[creaturecat]

so.... we all know and love our REAL 911's . Why do we want to beat down the price of every car that comes up for sale? Think of those P.O.S. muscle cars from days gone past. We deserve better!!!!!!!!

[aigel]

A P.O.S muscle car with low production numbers is about the same price than a nice early S.

Who beats prices down on P cars?

George

[creaturecat]

i do not think so - have you checked the prices of muscle cars ? These cars are appreciating NOT depreciating . Who beats down prices on the 911? -a lot of people on this bbs (i.e ." B. A. valuations are too high"). I agree the early s cars have appreciated - what about the 87-89 p cars? -these cars represent the best of the lot according to most people .

[masraum]

THe price of '87-89's is going down because their miles are starting to get into the 100-150K mile range, so they are often times in rougher shape. The cars that are still around from '70 have largely either been restored or really, really well cared for. Not to mention the supply is much smaller than it once was, but the late 80's cars are not at that point yet. THink about it, the early S cars are about as old as the old musclecars, maybe that's why they are both appreciating. I don't know of any domestic car from the late 80's that is appreciating or has even held it's value as well as the 911 from that era. The '87-89 cars that are still around in the year 2020 will then be appreciating assuming things haven't changed so radically that no one wants old cars. Seem unlikely.

[aigel]

If you do this you have to compare muscle cars to the early S. We are talking supercars like a hemi charger, a w-30 Olds 442 or Hurst/Olds, a tri carb GTO.... We are NOT talking a chevy nova, a pontiac lemans or a plain jane cutlass. If you look at those cars, you need to compare them to a 912, or 911T. Then things seem fairly equal again.

As for the newer cars, of course those are still subject of depreciation. Show me a mid 70s and up American car that fetches any significant money. There is no muscle cars in that era. A 77 Camaro? A 1980 Corvette? Nothing!

I think many of our cars have likely bottomed out and will stay where they are at, or increase in value by us getting them in their best shape. I doubt my SC will ever be a desirable collectors item. The Turbos of that era may be, but not a high production SC.

Cheers, George

[MY83SC]

aigel. Production numbers do not make any sense. There were 12,962 911's produced wold wide in 1972 (all models) and 8,775 911's produced in 1981 (world wide)........I believe that the early models have appreciated more because of their age and style. And didn't get the bad wrap of being unreliable as the 2.7 powered cars have. I don't know if the SC's will ever become collectable but they were by no means a "High production" car. The early cars with their long hoods, are the first 911's, less plentiful do to age and turning into rust buckets. Thus more desirable. Just my 2 cents.

[nostatic]

There were 60,000 or so SCs built. Most of those are still on the road. Why would they command top dollar with those kind of numbers?

[MY83SC]

Closer to 50,000 world wide from 1978-1983 were produced. How many early cars were produced from lets say 1969-1973?
I never said anything about "Top dollar" Just that production numbers were not the only factor as to why the early cars are appreciating.

[aways]

Question: Were there more SC's made on average per year
from 78-83 or more Carreras per year from 84-89?

[MY83SC]

Here's a link with lots of interesting information. www.adelgigs.com/911vin%20numbers.shtml

[vash]

true muscle car, are badass. forget the 80's. go way back to 60's and earlier. no way they are POS.

[rdane]

There were 60,000 or so SCs built. Most of those are still on the road.

Production numbers world wide were 60740 between '78 and '83.

Put that into some perspective. In '79 there were 2013 US coupes built. In '80 there were a total of 408 Weissach built. In '83, 1781 cabs were manufactured.

There are 190 million cars and trucks crisscrossing America's roads today?

I would suspect the loss rate on a 25 year old car would be closer to 50% than 25% on a Porsche. More like 75% on anything else, if not higher yet. Some where between 100 and 1500 '79s left and say 2 to 300 Weissachs would be my guess. Anyone have real numbers on the loss rates?

I am really curious about is how do you figure "most of those are still on the road"? I'd be surprised if there was anything close to 50%. We recycle 26 cars per minute, 24 hours a day 7 days a week in the US. Which adds up to 103% of the steel used to make the current cars produced here in the USA. Or 13,665,600 cars recycled in the USA every year and that number gets larger with every passing moment.

There were 38.6 million cars produced world wide in 1980. Germany did 3.9 million of those or roughly 10%.

In 2003: the year-to-date, U.S. vehicle output totaled 5.76 million units compared with 5.91 million a year ago.

Germany produced almost 4 million cars in '79 and produced just over 5 million cars in '03.

http://www.vda.de/en/aktuell/statistik/jahreszahlen/automobilproduktion/

Say we are recycling just 5% of the SCs on the road every year past 1983? How many does that leave us today? 20,685 world wide of all models. Since the US got 25,537 SCs originally out of 60,000 that number doesn't look too promising to me if you figure 1/3 (8512) is what might be left in the USA.

[MY83SC]

Just to give an example of what I consider to be a "high production" car. The Corvette. 1979= 53,807 cars produced.

[aigel]

Originally posted by MY83SC
Just to give an example of what I consider to be a "high production" car. The Corvette. 1979= 53,807 cars produced.

And with what, 150 horse ? to boot! Those were the dark days of American muscle...

George