Can't Select Any Gear!

[B D]

First off the car is a Sportomatic, but don't let that scare you this an trans issue not a Sporto one I am pretty sure.

OK, I went out last night to replicate my starter issue (intermittent starting worked fine 9/10 times) and could not replicate the issue. So I decided to go for a drive, but could not get it in to any gear. It feels like something is blocking the selection of gears. It wasn't even grinding when I pulled with some force, except first which has been normal lately and unneeded with a Sporto which launches fine in 2nd. After some revving and pulling I did get it into third once with a slight grind. I shut her down and was able to get in all gears with the engine off.

This problem arose out of no where, last time I drove the car it ran great. I just rebuilt the carbs and replaced all sporto vac lines, I doubt they would develop a leak just sitting there. As I said before there has been some grinding lately with 1st and also reverse but all else was good. I did check the oil level since the torque converter shares engine oil and it was within the marks on the stick I added a little anyways and it did not help. Would being low on trans fluid create this problem, or is the clutch wet? Could the clutch adjustment be off?

I am lost when it comes to internal trans operations, I do however have the sporto operations figured out.

[B D]

Come on guys I know it's friday, but 10 views in the past hour and a half! OK can anyone reccomend the best shop for Trans issues around OC, I think this may beyond me if I had a lift I may be a little more daring.

[djmcmath]

I'll give you the bump, and let you know that your first line totally killed me. I came into this thread all enthused, "I know 915's!! Maybe I can help!!" but then realized you don't have a tranny I know. Aargh. Sorry, and good luck.

Dan

[B D]

OK I edited the first line, this a non Sporto issue (I believe).

Thanks Dan just the fact you tried makes me feel better.

[Grady Clay]

BD,

Sounds like possibly the clutch isn’t releasing and the syncros won’t let it go into gear. Does it grind when you try to engage reverse? Can you engage the gears when the engine is off? Yes.

Best,
Grady

[B D]

Does it grind when you try to engage reverse? Can you engage the gears when the engine is off? Yes.

Yes, it grinds going in to reverse it's done that for the past month same with first. Never really needed reverse I just roll the car out of the garage usually. And Yes I can engage gears with the engine off. Thanks Grady!

What would cause the clutch not to release?

[B D]

Thanks Grady Again! I just found an old post you explain the issue on. Here it is for anyone to reference.
I need to depress the clutch pedal twice to get the 901 into 1st....

I think this maybe the problem I know my tranny has had a leak but it was never an issue before until now.

[Grady Clay]

BD,

Whatever you do, DON’T try and force into a gear with the engine running. You can damage syncros, sliding sleeves, and dogs.

To add more to the diagnosis, you should still be able to hear and feel the clutch engaging and disengaging when you handle the shift lever. If not, the first place to look is the clutch electrical switch on the shift lever. Did you have anything alongside the seats and shift lever? Did you bump the shift lever with anything?

There are three basic stages to the clutch. First is the electrical with the switch at the shift handle and the control valve (electric solenoid that controls the vacuum.) Next in the pneumatic with the control valve and the vacuum servo unit with attendant check valves and vacuum reservoir. Finally there is the mechanical linkage that actually operates the clutch.
It sounds like something in one of these stages isn’t working.

A simple test is to put a 12V test light on the control valve solenoid electrical connection. Operate the shift handle and you should get power to the solenoid.
The solenoid is just inboard of your left carburetor.

Best,
Grady

[B D]

I can hear a change in the engine idle speed when I move the lever so I am pretty sure this is not a Sporto issue and the all electrial is working. I just replaced the vac lines with a carb rebuild so no leaks I believe, it ran fine after the replacement and rebuild. The linkage is all connected I got under the car to verify. I did not have a helper to help me test the movement of the linkage. I believe the clutch is stuck due to oil and the servo arm does not have the power to move the clutch. I see a lot of oil on the trans so I am guessing I have a leak causing this problem.

I guess a trans drop will be needed, I have never dropped an engine or trans yet. I am a self taught mechanic in the past 14 months since I have owned the car I have done a valve job, rebuilt the carbs and tuned them, rewired the birdsnest in the engine compartment and installed a MSD box and electronic ignition and put on sport muffler etc. I also learned all about the Sporto system when the servo linkage came apart and had me diagnosing every little part of the system, I even manged to reattach the linkage with one hand and no visuals so I have some confidence in my abilities. My question is this fix beyond me? Can it be done in a garage with a jack and some jack stands, or should I pass this to a real mechanic? What does the fix entail if it's a leak causing the stuck clutch some new gaskets and clean up?

[djmcmath]

I can't speak directly to a sporto drop, but I just dropped the engine in my '86, and it was the easiest thing I've ever done. Two afternoons of super-careful super-slow work, documenting every little detail, taking notes on absolutely everything, and it came out clean and without a hitch. My tools, BTW, are no more than you're working with -- floor jack from Sears, some truck-size jackstands to get the engine all the way out under the rear valence, and a furniture dolly from Home Depot ($20).

As to actually fixing what's in there, I know neither jack nor @@@@ about sporto's, but I can help with the engine drop.

Dan

[Grady Clay]

BD,

Stop, don’t pull the engine and trans yet. Some more diagnosis is in order.

You need a regular automotive vacuum gauge. Invent a way to tap into the vacuum hose at the vacuum reservoir. You want to insure you can get full vacuum and it doesn’t leak down too fast.

When you rebuilt the carbs, did you have the sporto check valves out of the intake manifolds?

With the engine at idle, go search for a vacuum leak. I use WD-40. Whatever, keep a large fire extinguisher handy.

This is sounding like it could be progressively loosing peak vacuum.

There is another test you should do but I need to research the wiring. You should put it in 4th and try to start the engine. It won’t do this because of an electrical safety interlock. That interlock needs to be temporarily bypasses for this test.
Assuming you have proper vacuum, this will further narrow the possibilities. I won’t discount oil on the clutch.

You want to do as much diagnosis as possible first. You don’t want to find yourself in the situation where the engine and transmission are out and you can’t find a problem.

You should also scout around and see what the sources and availability of 905 parts are. Perhaps I should say lack of availability. Seals shouldn’t be a problem. Hoses can be repaired if the fittings are OK. Clutch disc should be easy. The problem comes if the servo or control valve are not functioning properly.

Best,
Grady

[joehahn]

microswitch. also, suck and blow test. i will find old post.

[B D]

You need a regular automotive vacuum gauge. Invent a way to tap into the vacuum hose at the vacuum reservoir. You want to insure you can get full vacuum and it doesn’t leak down too fast.

I can do that I just need to get a t connector from my local hose shop. What numbers should I see? Before that I'll do a quick check by pulling the hose off the resovoir, I know it usually makes a nice pop when you pull it off.

When you rebuilt the carbs, did you have the sporto check valves out of the intake manifolds?

I did not see any check valves on the manifold. The car is 68, first year Sporto, does the 68 have the check valves? Joe does your car have the check valves? The car ran fine without them last weekend.

That's a good thought that a vaccum leak (possibly the manifold) would not let the resovoir get enough vaccum pressure.

Question: I know what the control valve does basically, but how does the adjustmnet change its function? More or less vaccum pressure?

I do have a spare Sporto tranny, torque converter and a servo, but no control valve.

Thanks everyone for your help. Joe I have the post about the suck test.

[john walker's workshop]

have someone work the shifter to potentially operate the servo, and go underneath with a flashlight and mirror and see if the servo on top of the trans is pulling the release arm. should be obvious movement. on jackstands of course.

[B D]

have someone work the shifter to potentially operate the servo, and go underneath with a flashlight and mirror and see if the servo on top of the trans is pulling the release arm. should be obvious movement. on jackstands of course.

Will do, have done it before. Did not have a helper last night, having the girlfriend come over tonight.

I am thinking it may not be moving enough due to oil on the clutch or not enough vaccum.

[Bones]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. It's extremely unlikely that your gearbox has just ceased functioning and for all 915 experts afraid of type 925 gearboxes - sportomatic - they are manual just like yours with less gears and a semi-auto shifter. I think you should check further for a vacuum/electrical related problem. Some questions.

Does the gearbox select all gears with the engine switched off? If so it's not the box.

Have you got a friend to crawl under the tranny and observe the clutch arm moving? As you move the gear stick with the car running you should hear the diaphragm move above the engine noise from the cockpit. If you just cannot select a gear and it is absolutely not a vacuum/electrical problem then it may well be the rare time that a torque converter fails. Mine gave up the ghost at 137,000 miles and it simply would no longer select a gear even though the sporto side of things was ok.
First though you must establish and not assume that the vacuum and electrical connections are working correctly. The most likely failure is in the micro-switches at the bottom of the gear lever. Email me if you like but I'm off to bed in an hour.

[Bones]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. It's extremely unlikely that your gearbox has just ceased functioning and for all 915 experts afraid of type 925 gearboxes - sportomatic - they are manual just like yours with less gears and a semi-auto shifter. I think you should check further for a vacuum/electrical related problem. A question.

Have you got a friend to crawl under the tranny and observe the clutch arm moving? As you move the gear stick with the car running you should hear the diaphragm move above the engine noise from the cockpit. If you just cannot select a gear and it is absolutely not a vacuum/electrical problem then it may well be the rare time that a torque converter fails. Mine gave up the ghost at 137,000 miles and it simply would no longer select a gear even though the sporto side of things was ok.
First though you must establish and not assume that the vacuum and electrical connections are working correctly. The most likely failure is in the micro-switches at the bottom of the gear lever. Email me if you like but I'm off to bed in an hour.

[B D]

Thanks everyone again. Anybody got any idea of what type of vaccum pressure readings I should get at the resivoir? I have a feeling this is vaccum related or the clutch has oil on it.

Months ago the servo linkage came undone and it was grinding when I tried to put in gear, now there is no grinding so I am guessing I have some vaccum and little movement of the clutch. But how much vaccum do I need?

[B D]

Bones how does the torque converter not let you slect a gear? Was there grinding when you tried to put it in to gear? I understand the sporto electrical and vaccum, but the trans is all greek to me.

[Bones]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by B D
Bones how does the torque converter not let you slect a gear? Was there grinding when you tried to put it in to gear? I understand the sporto electrical and vaccum, but the trans is all greek to me. [/QUOTE
When mt torque converter failed it effectively 'locked' the transmission, even though the clutch appeared to be working it couldn't, occasionally it would select a gear but often with grinding noises from the gearbox. As I said above look at the big faults last. Firstly satisfy yourself that the clutch arm is moving in synchronicity with the gear stick, get a friend neighbour, anyone to look under there and observe what is going on.
Remove the gear knob and the bellows or gaiter on the gear stick and observe the points. I have had a situation where the gear stick only operated the clutch arm when the gear stick was moved forward. This was caused by the points holser - plastic - cracking. When you have the points easily visible touch them with a small screwdriver to see if you can get a reaction from the clutch arm/diaphragm, if you do the points are toast and either need cleaning or replacing. The only gearbox problem I have had was with a failure of first gear synchro, but the other gears still worked ok. If you have oil coming from inside the torque converter/ Clutch housing it is most likely to be a leaking torque converter oil seal, I currently have this problem - fix it next week - but the gear change is super fast and silky smooth.