how can I make an 86 faster?
 

As the title says, what can be done to improve on the 86 Carrera?

faster for what?

remove weight. tweak suspension. seat time for driver.

because too fast is yet to be achieved! :eek:

935 front suspension, 993 multilink rear suspension, Change everything you can that is metal to carbon fiber, remove the interior, add a aluminum race shell, remove the entire HVAC system, use 935 sprint engine, slicks, hire Timo Bernhard to drive it for you.

That should about do it.

Oh yah, I was talkin to Timo the other day. I was cruising through the 'S' at Laguna and he called me on my cell phone. Thank goodness for hands free kits :cool:

I think what nostatic meant was - in what way do you want it to be faster. Top seed, 0-60, faster on a track (and if so, what is the ratio of curves to straightaways...[Le Mans for example]) etc.

Sounds like it is track speed that you want to increase.

IF so, 1. Are you getting brake fade?
2. What tires are you using.
3. How much body roll is there?
4. What smog regs. apply to engine hotrodding?

I'm in Michigan so no smog regs, I haven't yet, but plan on SSI, haven't decided on a muffler yet--nothing to wild. Mostly street driven, but agressively, not so interested in top speed, like to fire it out of corners. Suspension is stock, don't know where to start with that. '86 started with larger sway bars and torsion bars in the rear, don't know if I want to go with an all out 993 rear suspension--I do have a budget. I still have stock intake, is there anything better for the 3.2?

Slam a small block Chevy in for power ;)

(running and ducking for cover)

Two words (well, one acronym, one word:)): JATO rocket.

Best,

Kurt

Jeff

Before you spend your money on "upgrades", let me suggest you take your car out and participate in a Drivers Education event. Make a weekend out of it. If it's organized by PCA, even better.

You will learn a tremendous amout about your car and more importantly, what "fast" really means. Nostatic wasn't giving you a hard time. After the DE you'll understand what he was asking. It will be a major Eye-Opening experience.

You don't need to upgrade your car to do this. You will need a helmet, but probably not much else.

Once you've run a DE or two, you'll still want to upgrade your car. But you'll know what you are trying to achieve. And you will know what "fast" means. That probably sounds like a bunch of BS, but trust me on this one; Do a DE first.

The most limiting factor in a 911 is the driver. If you want to go faster, there is no more cost effective way than to improve your skills. Once your skills match the car's capabilities, that would be the time to start looking for upgrades. Sorry that's not the popular view, but it's the truth.

Wise words from Chuck. In the mean time get some good reading in. You can search this board for things like: suspension, bushing, revalved, sway bars, camber, weight...

As for power, do a search on 'Steve Wong' and 'chip'.

If you want to drool over cool go-fast parts go to
www.elephantracing.com
or
www.smartracingproducts.com

"like to fire it out of corners"

- small block Chevy

I've spent a good chunk of money since my first DE, but not a single lick on the engine/hp. The three "S's": safety, suspension, seat time. imho you can't safely explore the limits of the car on the street, and when you get on the track you can't explore the limits in stock seats with stock restraints. After that it is all gravy.

There is a DE event with South East Michigan PCA at Waterford on the 9th Sept. The advice from the previous posts to try a DE event will open your eyes to your cars performance. Give it a try, Waterford is a tight, technical track, that will test your suspension and handling and will give you a good baseline to prioritize any upgrades.
Check out the SEM website, www.sempca.org

I have dumped $1000's (I'm being conservative) into my 89 over the past 5 years and I can tell you unequivocally the single best improvement you can do is getting a programed chip from Steve Wong. I have been working out getting the fuel/air ratio's on my 3.4 correct with Steve on a dyno.The difference between running rich and lean is amazing. On my car, this is easily another 15-25 hp just in tuning in the motronic. If your car is stock, your chip is not going to give you the maximum amout of power. Email him or give him a call. You won't be dissapointed.

Ditto 89911.

I had an '88 Targa for over 7 years, and finally decided that the answer to this question is TURBO. The '86 will never be a hugely fast car compared to what's out there now.

DEs are a lot more fun when you're not a rolling chicane in the straights. (I know a lot of people will object to this characterization, and sure, I'm not the best driver out there, but this is still just IMO).

The Carreras can still corner like crazy, but there's something to be said for rocketship acceleration.

Jeff,

I second (third?) the chip idea, and I have nothing but great things to say about Steve Wong.

Secondly, through personal experience, I think that a pretty inexpensive way to gain some more power out of a Carrera is to replace the cat with a bypass pipe, and either buy a freer flowing muffler or gut your stock muffler. I went through the gutting route due to cost, and the cat bypass/gutted stock muffler combination made a BIG difference in seat of the pants power.

Finally, take the advice given above and start attending some organized DE events. Regardless of how good a driver you are now, it is amazing how quickly you will find out that the car is not the limiting factor in how fast you can drive. I put the DE needle into my arm for the first time in April of this year, and have gone through 4 DE days since, and am looking for more and more! (and the last one was just last week). Beware that they are addictive, but mostly they are informative.

Do a couple of inexpensive things to the car now, but get into the DE's so that you can then start spending the real money more wisely on real improvements.

Good luck,
Tom

If your motor is going out, you can replace it with a 3.6

Assuming you're keeping the 3.2 then think seriously about changing the ring / pinion to 7.31 ratio - instant acceleration improvement for street, track and autox.

Jeff:

I have an 87 Carrera. All it took was a handfull of laps around a road course circuit to conclude:

(1) My car has more than enough acceleration, (2) My brakes are great, (3) Every $ I spend on performance will go into suspension, seat time, and adding less weight. I do not want a dedicated track car, so a roll cage, harness, and race buckets are a no no for me.

If you want a crisper throttle response, a Steve W chip may be worthwhile for you too. I have had one for a year and it is great.


Finally, I just got back from a 700 mile trip up Hwy 1 in California. It is a lot of high speed mixed with a gaggle of tight twisties. I was NEVER wanting for more hp. A more balanced and grippy chasis would have been nice though.

Good luck.

Mike

Concur with the guys on getting DE time. I've done it in my Carrera and in my 993 and have had my a$s handed to me by older, slower cars with great suspension and more experienced drivers. After my first DE in the 993 I swore I wouldn't spend another dime on HP until I had upgraded suspension and done a few more DE's.

Well, now I'm there. My Bilstein HD's and H&R springs are about as good as it gets, so I'm spending money on another DE and will start planning an engine drop for light-weight flyhweel and RS clutch kit, maybe even a Euro G50/21 gearbox. But this is gratuitous stuff mainly for street driving. A stock Carrera does just fine on the track and you'd be amazed how much you can get out of the car with just more seat time.

To really make it go faster, toss it out of an airplane at about 30,000 feet!


Wayne




http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...hotbounce2.gif

The usual way is

• cams
• compression
• displacement
• gearing

;)

OK, I'll do some DEs, get the chip, then work over the suspension. Once all that's done I'll drop it out of an airplane at 30,000 feet. Anyone have access to a C-30 that I can borrow?

What can be done for cams on the Carreras? I haven't heard too much about a better profile on the 3.2s. But, that is why I posted the question!

First and number 1 upgrade is the nut behind the wheel (you). Do at least one DE - I found I had plenty of power.

from there - Steve Wong chip, Dansk premuffler, Sport muffler. - you won't gain much for the $$ from SSI's.

From there do a search on Stage II Turbo from Promotive.

I suggest that a search is in order. There are a whole bunch of guys that have used different cams w/ good results. The main caveat is that the Motronic metering system limits the lumpiness that can be used.

"lumpiness'

- a good term -- not just for cams but for many of the answers posted on this and other BBS's

BTW, you need to think about what is legal, and what is affordable. It is a lot cheaper to do thought experiments than to rush in with a wallet and a wrench. good luck.

I second everyone who said spend some time on DE.

My 84 is plenty fast with just a weight reduction plan and a SteveW chip, but what made it a great car to drive fast was a complete suspension R&R wtih bigger T bars, Elephant Racing bushings, Bilstein Sports, turbo tierods, lowered and corner balanced.

For weight reduction, I
pulled entire AC
Momo Corse's for driver and passenger
Minimal interior... no back seats, no carpet, console
No spare tire, but a can of fix-a-flat and tire repair kit

SUre a DE helps you drive faster on the track. But reread his comments - he is looking for certain things -- and they aren't particularly well correlated with DE experience.

Thanks for understanding Randy. But I did get plenty of help from everyone, and I do understand the importance of DE events.

Do a search for "Juan Ruiz" on this Forum and you'll see how to make a 3.2 FAAAASSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTT!!!!

Red: stock chip
Blue: performance chip (that you can purchase everyday at Pelican) :cool:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1092794095.gif

From Tomturtle's '88 Clubsport.

When I first got my SC it had ok power. But I am a turbo guy so I put a 930 motor in my car. That was the single best thing that I did to my car. It made my Porsche go like it should.
Dean

Dean, lets keep it real. I would not put a engine transplant in the same catagory as a chip and exhaust modifications. I would hope your car is faster. Not everyone wants to dump the engine they just got with their car and then spend another $10,000 for engine work. I think they would of just bought a turbo instead.

Jeeze I was just telling the original poster what I did to my car to make it faster. I don't think I implied that a turbo is in the same catagory as a chip and exhaust.
Dean

Any particular reason the dyno graph is scored at a 6200rpm instead of a more realistic chip comparison at 6K?

Basically with the stock chip, peak hp is attained at 5900 rpm, as shown the owner's manual and multiple dyno charts, as can be seen here:

http://www.911chips.com/dyno.html

With the performance chip, the hp contines to rise past 5900 and a new peak is reached at around 6200 rpm. As you can see, at 6200 rpm, the engine has gained 22 rear wheel hp, an equivalent of 26 crank hp. That is a 12% gain in power. Past 6000 rpm, the engine power seemingly continues to rise and pull until the rev limiter hits, whereas with the stock chip, the engine seems like it hits a wall after 6200.