fuch replicas: who has used them with good results??

[Mike69T]

I was just wondering if there have beed any good experiences with replicas?? It seems like there is a lot of bad opions from people that maybe have never had personal experience... So, I guess I was hoping to get some feedback from people that have them....

[TRE Cup]

there were a few different manufacturers. The best ones we've seen were made in japan and have a "jil" inspection cast into them. (don't know what it means, other than it was some sort of government requirement somewhere). anyway, the worst seem to some of the ones made here in the usa. there was a company that made very poor replicas- if you looked at the back , they had cast in reinforcing ribs. American Racing did some decent ones. there have been plenty of people that have raced with replicas, but caveat emptor! ALWAYS get any potential wheel carefully inspected before installation- even fuchs crack (plenty of discussion on this board)

[Wil Ferch]

Thr forging processs "squeezes" the host metal into a stronger, denser configuration. Copies of Fuchs that are cast usually don't bother to go to fatter cross-section in areas of high stress.....to regain the lost strength of casting. Meaning....nothing wrong with cast wheel, Porsche's later wheels are cast, but they have to be designed with the casting process in mind.
Replia Fuchs are *generally* bad news as a result....bcause nothing is made thicker to compensate. it's only your hide you're putting on the line after all.

--Wil

[xlr8]

pic of non-fuch found on this board-

[Mike69T]

yeah...i have heard all the horror stories.. I guess I was hoping to hear some ggod news. Maybe there isn't any????

[87turbolook911]

When I bought my car I had know idea that there were replica fuchs out there. Turns out my rear 9's are in fact replica's. Not sure what brand though.

The past two years I've done two autocrosses, one HPDC, and one DE on them with no problems. I have checked for cracks, none that I can see.

Lucky? Or is the forge vs cast debate a bit much. I will say that the thickness of center portion of the 9's are thicker than the front OEM fuchs. And they aren't much heavier than the fronts.

Anyways....I'm moving on to different wheels. I'll be selling my complete set soon. And for those that will be interested, I will fully disclose about the potential hazard they may have.

But for someone just looking for an awesome street set up, the 7 and 9 combo is hard to beat.

[aigel]

I am suspicious that there may be a peanut gallery aspect to the people strongly recommending not to use replica fuchs - even for the street.

I use replicas and have had half a dozen track events, including track run offs. I bought these wheels from a person that also tracked and autocrossed them for years. And my local PCA does NOT say you can't use replica fuchs. Another urban myth someone created. It may be true for other classes, but not for Time Trial events locally. I am not worried about these wheels just braking in pieces when I am going down the front stratght at 130mph, and they haven't done so either.


These wheels I have are 15x7 and are thicker than the original fuchs in many areas, especially in the center of the hub. They have a bit rougher finish overall, except for the peddals and the polished rim. The only markings they have are the ones indicating size. They are a slightly different offset / backspacing than the front 911 wheel. I realized that, because I had rubbing issues with this wheel, which I didn't have with an original 911 7x15.

That picture of the broken out hub is famous. And the story is that it broke first and then the car hit a divider wall. Well, unless you have it on camera or bring in the team the analyzes the NASA Shuttle desasters, there is no way to tell what happened first. And yes, the original wheel probably would bend more before breaking. There is less ductility in the replicas than in the forged wheel. But I don't think that they are brittle, have too low yield strengt or anything of that sort!

Am I 100% comfortable using repros? No. 99.9% though. I am a careful person, overall. These wheels will do, until I can buy myself a set of 17" welded (OMG, will welding on a non Porsche rim kill you?) Fuchs from Lindsey Racing in Oklahoma. I check my repros - as I check all my wheels, after every event.

(flame retardant suit on)

George

[aigel]

And looking at that non original fuchs wheel again. You can clearly see that it has been hit hard on the rim. There is entire chunks missing out of the rim between 10 and 12 o'clock. That's where some impact took place. Smack it like that, off center at 120mph, of course something will brake?

Just a theory here.

George

[aigel]

I went to the garage and double checked. Here is my latest opinion...

The repro wheels I have are thicker, at least 50% in every section that I would think needs to be re-enforced. The inside where the spokes meet the rim has an entire 3/4 inch wide and 1/4 inch thick rim added to the wheel. These repros definitely are not made with a mold that was just copied of an original rim as often implied by people. Inside and outside shape are different, the inside being much more significant (naturally). Here are a couple of pictures for comparison. The tape I put to help the lead stay in place...

I also forgot, in addtion to the size it also says: maximum load 1040 lbs. That should indicate that this wheel was made for the US market

I am not saying that there may not be crappy wheels out there, but if yours look like mine, I wouldn't hesitate to use them.

And talking about looks. My repros have much pointier peddle tips (on the inside of the hub) than the one in the broken pic. Maybe there is something to it, that broken one sure looks paper thin where you can see the cross section. So, my latest opinion on this is: It depends on what kind of repros you have. If they are cast nice and thick and make a re-enforced impression, I'd use them at least on the street.

George

[aigel]

real fuchs



fake fuchs

[azasadny]

I have replica Fuchs on my car and haven't had any trouble with them, but I don't track the car, just "normal" driving and warm weather only as the car is stored for the Michigan winters.

[Wil Ferch]

As I said...particularly dangerous if the fakes don't add "meat" to compensate for the strength loss. you can't simply duplicate the dimensions of the forged wheel when you cast..
--Wil

[304065]

I have a set for my rain tires, they are much heavier than real Fuchs. Higher polar moment, slower spin-up/spin-down, like driving a different car when I use them. When I get new rains they're going to be sold.

[palle7688]

aigel, with flame retardant suit on
"That picture of the broken out hub is famous. And the story is that it broke first and then the car hit a divider wall. Well, unless you have it on camera or bring in the team the analyzes the NASA Shuttle desasters, there is no way to tell what happened first."

Are you saying that i'm not telling the truth, i was there first hand and since it's my picture of my wheel and i was sitting in the car when it happened and i can tell you for sure it definitety broke before i hit the divider.
What made the big chunk i can't tell you but it wasn't there when i started driving, could have been the petals still mounted to the hub or something the wheel hit after leaving my car.
To clearify i was only doing about 100 mph, not 120 or 130, in a slight curve when it broke and the car pulled very strongly to the left going into spin and i hit the divider with both front and rear end almost totalled the car. (in fact the insurence company asked if i wanted it totalled. It would have been cheaper for them but it's very hard to find a '76 200 hp 3.0 Euro Carrera targa in good condition)
I'm however glad the picture is famous because whenever i get a chance i'll encourage people to NOT drive replica fuchs because of my bad experience.
Use your replica fuchs for your gardenhose only, imho
By the way why not use the original it seems like it's much cleaner than the replica in your pictures:-)

[aigel]

Palle:

I would never accuse you of being untruthful! I just tried to emphasize that it was hard to determine after a crash what broke first, how and when. It is hard to tell, even if you are the one driving. But what counts is that we all can see that your wheel broke in a very ugly manner and the cracked cross sections look paper thin. I think you don't want to drive on wheels like those and I agree that you should continue to show people the picture!

I am going to use up the rubber on my repros and they will be available cheap in the classifieds section.

Take care, George

[jmz]

used 15x7 fake fuchs for years ...at least 17 years or so. at any rate no problem. was a street/ auto-x car only ...no track time

[SandyI]

Why not buy real Fuchs? Then you don't have to worry. Plus, real Fuchs add value to your car and the fake ones do the opposite.

[RickM]

Originally posted by TRE Cup
there were a few different manufacturers. The best ones we've seen were made in japan and have a "jil" inspection cast into them. (don't know what it means, other than it was some sort of government requirement somewhere).

FWIW:

JIL stands for Japanese Institute of Labor

Japan's foremost research organization in Labor and Industrial relations.