Is this '88 3.2 worth $19K?

[MIK911]

Thinking about buying this car. Price $19K

VIN # WPOAB0916JS120210
Blk/Blk Paint code=L700 (correct?)
94K miles
No history. No paperwork. Current owner x 2 yrs put on 4K miles

Fuchs 16x7,8
Exterior 8/10, Interior 8/10, Engine cleanliness 7/10
Problems:
1) AC doesn't work
2) Clutch chatter at low rpm upon take off (need G50 upgrade kit????)
3) Repainted hood, L rear fender (?reason), and Engine lid
Underside of engine lid repaint is totally bubbling (heat?)
4) R front wheel well lip chip and krinkled (1.5" length) from previous owner's "too wide tires"
5) Stick shifter with some play (need shifter bushings?)

Give me the truth. I can handle it!!!
Buy or Walk???

thanks
Mike

[Rot 911]

At that price I think you can find better.

[bigrubberjeep]

I agree, but if you work him on the price a bit, maybe another 2K off, then I would say your in the game.

[jrdavid68]

Walk.

[qcwang]

If it is not better than what you have now, I would find something else. The cost of all the upgrades may not be worth it. If the price came down and you were willing to take on the projects and otherwise good PPI, I guess it would be ok to seriously consider.

What would you do with the other?

Q

[Emission]

NO history, NO paperwork, NO A/C....

Run.

I wouldn't do it.

[imcarthur]

Sounds like $17 K because of work required. No records is a bit scary too. But if PPI is good . . .

Carfax is OK btw. 4 owners.

PM me with email address if you want it.

Ian

[nostatic]

clean carfax doesn't mean squat. No records and the body/paint work would worry me. A mechanic and body shop ppi should give you some insight, but there still are a lot of unknowns. Seems like a lot of cars are sitting on the market right now. A "known" G50 car with those miles would likely be about 19K. Take you pick on what the "unknown" is worth to you. I'd say about $4-5K.

[unimog]

Mike,
I picked up my '87 in pretty much the same condition (miles 96,000) in Hermosa Beach, December of last year, for $11,500, and the seller paid for the clutch and ring gear ($2,600 at Dutch Treat in Lawndale). Mine had repainted fenders, which was killing the sale for him to most guys. It was also running like cr_p, until Robert got hold of it, now it purrs like a kitten. It was kind of a special deal, with the seller in Mississippi, and me in Northern California. I guess my point is, with the 'squawks' you should really be able to hammer the price down, since most buyers are looking no work, no damage cars.

[ZOA NOM]

It's the best year, hands down. Life is short. Pay the man and don't look back. Paid $23k for mine with 78k, and I've dumped more than I care to reveal into her. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Eric Coffey]

All I can offer:

L700 = correct code for non-metallic black.

low RPM (G50) clutch chatter = normal.

Although, the G50 release shaft/fork update is a necessity if it hasn't been done already.

[Por_sha911]

Although, the G50 release shaft/fork update is a necessity if it hasn't been done already.

Necessity? Why?

[MIK911]

Ian--thanks. You have PM

Eric--G50 low rpm clutch chatter is NORMAL??? What are the signs/problems of G50 if fork update has not been done?
What about the 'play' at the shifter. My current 915 tranny (w/ new synchros) feels more precise than the G50 on the car for sale. Would worn out synchros present as increased 'play'? Or could it something simpler (read: cheaper), like replacing the shifter bushings?

Thanks all. Appreciate your opinion.
Mike
'86 coupe

[unimog]

The throw-out fork 'mod' has upgraded bearing/bushings/pivot.
Our Host's kit:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_clutch_pg5.htm#item17
The '87-'89 had (in this area) clutch issues, guide tube issues, the throw out issue, and ring gear issues.
If you go in for one, you might as well get them all.

Mine ran-
ring gear $140
clutch kit $825
TO fork kit $160
guide tube $ 53
Labor for all $390

The play sounds like worn shift linkage bearings

[Yellowbird RS]

No more than $13,000, for 19k you can find a better one

[KTL]

You no records guys are chicken*****s..................

But seriously, records would be nice to know what's been done and what hasn't. If you're not too familiar with the workings of the car and not inclined to wrench it yourself, rolling the dice is risky for sure. I rolled 'em, have had no major problems, but did indeed put plenty of time and $ into my car. I dunno if my car necessarily needed it, but I figured what the hey. I have a hefty folder full of parts invoices to prove my car's history (which previously consisted of a tire shop receipt and some EPA testing notices............ ) and my car's not worth much more than the asking price of this one you're considering.

FYI, I bought my car in Mar. 2000 @ 62K miles for $23,400. It's now @ 71K with new complete clutch, suspension, brakes, tires, steering, no more minor/pesky leaks, resealed windshield, H4 headlights, RS America sport seats, much cleaner inside and out, and other little details. None of the stuff I did was 100% absolutely necessary, but most was stuff that would have needed attention in the near future. Everything worked fine on the car. I'm sure I easily paid ~ $2-3K too much for my car. Hey, it was pretty shiny!........................... But that's sometimes how you gotta learn. I spent way more (WAY MORE) than $2-3K in parts, and so will you.

As far as the issues you described,

-The fuchs issue is nice. Can live with those awhile. I have & hate 6/7 Fuchs. Advantage = seller since they're a desirable upgrade.

A/C doesn't work? So what. Seems like 75% of the people around here remove it anyway. But if you want it, it takes some work to fix it up nice and cold. Certainly a good bargaining point whether you care if it works or not. Advantage = you.

-Chatter is normal as others said. It's a function of the G50 clutch housing. Has nothing to do with the infamous release fork shaft issue. Would be nice to know the car's history about that fork shaft issue though. Symptoms of the shaft issue are a stiff pedal because the shaft's bearings are contaminated and don't let the shaft rotate smoothly. You can eventually break the hyd. slave cylinder because the effort required to push the pedal is too much for the cyl. to handle. The shaft bearings will dry up and seize. So it's not a matter of if it will, but when it will. That's why Porsche redesigned the shaft assembly. Advantage = you.

-Repaint is not necessarily the worst thing. Where is the paint bubbling under the lid? The fact that the repaint has some issues is, of course, advantage = you.

-The fender damage thing is no big deal if you decide to roll or shave the fender lips. Just be sure to prep them accordingly so as to avoid rust issues. My fenders were booged much worse than you describe (because of the same poor wheel/tire fitment) and I easily fixed 'em with my grinder, primer and some undercoating dabbed on the edge. Nonetheless, advantage = you.

-Sloppy shifter is most likely a bushing issue in the shifter housing. There's a plastic ball cup in there that deteriorates and makes the shifter floppy. Easy job to fix. Do a search and you'll find I posted images of an Excellence article on how to refurbish the 87-89 G50 shifter stuff. Despite the easy fix, advantage = you.

I think $19K is high for the car. $19K should bring you a car that has no major issues- just basic wear and tear and good, known mechanical condition. Lots of issues to bring the price down on this one IMO. Especially since you don't know what issues the motor may have. Drivetrain is the most important thing since the costs are big major service. Seems like a more reasonable selling price would be $15K at best? Seller might balk at that, but that's the way it goes with unknown service history and a handful of significant issues like you mentioned.

Hope that helps. There's plenty out there that are well cared for for not much more than the asking price of this one. If you're willing to do some serious wrenching, then haggle the price down (considerably) and have at it. Otherwise, walk.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally posted by Por_sha911
Necessity? Why?

Do a search for "g50 update" or "g50 needle bearings". Only affected the 1987 to early 1989 G50's. Definintely a must-do, but usually done at the same time as a clutch job to save $$.

Originally posted by MIK911
...Eric--G50 low rpm clutch chatter is NORMAL??? What are the signs/problems of G50 if fork update has not been done?

Yup, normal (at low RPM). Usual signs of G50 clutch shaft/fork probs are stiff pedal, and/or clunky clutch engagement. Shifter play is probably worn shift busings or center-tunnel shift coupler.

[Por_sha911]

My car just turned 40K. The update has not been done and the clutch and shift are smooth as butter. Should I fix what's not broke?

[KTL]

I guess you technically don't have to fix it. You can clean the old parts and as long as the parts aren't damaged (the bearings cut into the shaft), then I imagine you can reinstall everything, very lightly lubricated, and be fine for a long time. Thing is, it's hard to tell you have a problem until on the verge of terminal.

The clutch hydraulics provide so much leverage that you can't tell the slight increase in pedal effort. Only when the issue gets really bad will you then notice significant pedal effort.

The clutch disc change from rubber-centered to spring-centered is not a must do. The G50 and Turbo rubber discs have been said to be much more robust than the notoriously bad SC rubber-centered units. BUT, that's not to say the later G50 rubber ones don't fail. I recall reading one or two instances of this occurrence on the board. The spring-centered disc is a tried and true design. Can't go wrong with it. And it's much cheaper if I remember correctly.

[MIK911]

Thanks for some great answers, guys.
Kevin(KTL)--your responses are right on. Helps alot.

Any more thoughts?

thanks
mike