Clutch Spring

[Schrup]

I thought I broke my clutch cable at the track this weekend, but it turns out to be something else. When I got under the car, I found that the clutch spring had rotated. I am wondering if this means I have a problem with the fork. I have a new clutch, but wasn't planning on installing it till late fall. I don't want to drop the motor yet unless it's absolutely necessary. I was hoping that someone could see this & perhaps clue me in. Here is a couple pics. When I try to hook up the spring it wants to rotate again.

[Schrup]

The little clutch lever (left in pic) will only move about a 1/4 inch, so I'm guessing something is broke inside. Guess it's time for an engine drop.

[Superman]

Yeah, when you cock the spring back against the heat exchanger like in the bottom picture, the small arm and the long arm should already be pretty close. It looks to me like that small arm is out of position and my guess is still a broken fork. I wonder if you can see the crack at the base of one of the fork fingers, through one of the two access holes in the bellhousing.

[Gunter]

Paul: Taking a look at the Bentley page 301-5, it appears that the fork is the suspect. When you disconnect the Positioning Lever Spring (#3) does the small lever just flop around? If the fork is broken, that lever might be more loose than normal. If it needs a new fork, make sure that the release specs are followed (25mm) page 301-3 with the adjustable stop on the floor cover functioning. Great opportunity to replace bushings, etc in the release mechanism. A new clutch cable needs to be lubed with silicon grease. Get it done before Sept.11. I would help you if I lived closer. Cheers.

[djmcmath]

I don't know what the problem is, but I have lots of experience dropping engines*, and I live about an hour north of you, in Silverdale. If it turns out you do need to drop it, PM me.

Dan



*"lots" is defined in this context as "once, about a month and a half ago."

[yelcab1]

You do have to drop the engine this time. Looks like the fork is either broken or the retaining pin is sheared off.

[Superman]

That's what I think too. If you cannot get the cable, and adjusting screw on the small arm, to work together to get you a functioning clutch. That is, if the fork will not pull on the TOB no matter how you adjust it, then I think that would be consistent with a broken fork or sheared roll pin.

[Schrup]

Thanks for all the replies. The little lever seems to be frozen. Anyhow, I've got everything disconnected, got my CVs bagged & tagged & the engine is ready to drop. Tonight I'm going over to a friends to borrow his ATV jack, then I'll build a dolly to fit around it. I hope to drop the engine tomorrow evening. If anyone is interested in stopping by, send me a PM. I'm going to ask on the regional forum if any one has a yoke adapter so I can put my engine on a stand.

Gunter, thanks for the heads up. I doubt I'll make it on the 11th, I want to detail everything while I have the engine out & replace anything rubber. This is pretty exciting for me, I've been wanting to drop my motor for a while now. Everything in there is filthy.

[Schrup]

When I drained the tranny oil, there was a 8mm lock washer on the magnetic plug. I'm thinking it's a fastener from one of the selector forks. This really blows, I wasn't counting on opening up the gear box. I'm really short on cash these days & this could pretty much put me out of commission for the rest of the year unless I can open it up , replace the fastener, then button it back up. I don't have money for a rebuild, let alone to take it to my mechanic. Maybe I'm putting the buggy before the horse, but that washer can't be a good thing.

[Superman]

Keep us posted about the exact moment of your engine drop. When it comes to cleaning, don't waste time trying to be gentle. Take that thing to a car wash, or other pressure wash apparati, and perhaps a steam cleaner. It can take days to clean the outside of an engine/tranny, or it can take just a couple of hours.

If your tranny is working okay, then I might show that washer to someone like John before I made decisions about cracking trannies. Paul, your energy and thoroughness are admirable, but there's also something to say for the "if it aint broken, don't fix it" strategy. The presence of a washer proves little. It certainly raises the question of where the nut went, and whether that washer was part of your tranny's guts or not.

And for the rest of you: Can anyone make a positive identification of a broken fork problem using the pictures above. We're pretty sure that's what Paul's looking at, but we're not experts. Geniuses, yes. Experts, no.

[djmcmath]

I'm thinking through the recent reconstruction of my own 915, and I can't remember any lockwashers. OTOH, I didn't take apart my shift forks, either, so there could have been an 8mm lockwasher there that I don't remember.

My thought is that if it did come from the pinch clamp on a shift fork, it's only a matter of time before the fork gets loose and wanders. Then you're screwed -- towing home from wherever you happen to be.

As to the T/O bearing fork, that's easy to test. Push back and forth on the lever. If it moves real easy, something's broken. Mine works great, and barely moves at all. Can you double-check that before we drop the engine?

FWIW, it looks like your calibration/alignment on that setup is all wrong. Maybe the SC's are totally different, but the unloaded gap on my Carrera is supposed to be 1.2mm. In the bottom picture, yours looks more like 5-6mm. ?????

Dan

[Schrup]

Dan, I have tried the pry the lever, but it only has about a 1/4" slack in it & won't move anymore than that.

Jim, the engine drop will happen about 6pm, If your in the nieghborhood, stop by. The jack is under the motor & ready to drop. I almost did it last night but decided to wait till I had some extra eyes to to watch that everything is clearing.

I called John & he said it probable isn't the selector fork unless the PO's mechanic used the wrong washers. There are a few things it could be. He said he could open it up & take a look. I may take it up to him next week for piece of mind.

I'm going to try & find a steam cleaner here local to get everything clean. Maybe I can rent one. I'll post pics when I'm done.

[djmcmath]

.25" doesn't seem like a lot, but it seems like a lot more than mine has. Seems like mine was plenty tight, with maybe a few millimeters of play. I don't know if the SC's are that different on the T/O fork. Is it possible that it was just horribly maladjusted, somehow?

If we can get the engine out expeditiously, it should only be marginally more painful to pull the intermediate cover off to take a look ourselves, save John the trouble. I have the sockets and impact wrench for dismantling the 5/R parts of the shafts so we can get to the intermediate housing. Of course, just because we _can_ do something doesn't mean we _should_ do something.


Dan

[Rick Lee]

Paul, sorry about your headaches. Sounds like no fun. This topic is timely for me, as I pulled an engine out of a '70T on Sat. and the fork may be broken too. I think it's a 915 gearbox mated onto a 2.2l. Tranny does not have the horseshoe spring like yours. But when I took the clutch cable off, that's all I did. Then I unbolted the bell housing and it came right off. Shouldn't I have had to use a lot of force to move that lever to get the fork off of the t/o bearing? Owner says the car shifted just fine, though the t/o bearing had a good inch of wiggle play inside the pressure plate. I forgot to look at the fork, but will next weekend.

[Superman]

Dan, that 5-6 mm of gap is what makes me think, like Yelcab, that either the fork is buggered up or the roll pin has sheared. Although I have little experience with trannies, guys who have some experience report that they are pretty straightforward. It might be very possible to have a look at some of the guts fairly easily. And of course, John will always give you about 3x your money's worth and it would not take him long to gain access. When it comes time to have him rebuild my tranny, we might want to see if he can do it blindfolded. I bet he can.

Is that 6 pm tonite?

[djmcmath]

lol, to say that JWW is worth his weight in gold is an insult; that man is amazing. A wealth of wisdom and experience, and the goodwill and generosity to help us humble amateurs.

(sigh) My plan is to be on-site by about 6ish, but that may vary based on traffic from here. I'll be bringing the collection of tools that I used to dismantle mine, or however many of them I can fit in the P-car, anyway. My thought was to drop the engine and separate the tranny from the engine to inspect the t/o fork locally. If we still have time (which we ought to -- engine drop is not that hard, if all the connex are broken), I'd feel better if we could pull the intermediate cover off the tranny to take a quick look at the internals.

But then, it isn't my car -- we'll go with what Paul wants to do, of course. We can also discuss locally, if we're all going to be a part of this happy little party.

Cya'll in a bit,

Dan

[Schrup]

I'm stoked guys, thanks, I got the Henrys in the fridge. Thanks for bringing your wisdom & tools Dan, looks like Superman will be making an appearance as well as Ric.

[vash]

somebody take some pictures please. i want some faces, with the names. good luck paul, i hope it is a cheap and easy fix.

cliff

[djmcmath]

Wisdom? Yup, got John Walker's phone number right here.

[rcecale]

Dan, you're really crackin me up! Looks like you're still pounding your chest after soundly defeating the demons that were lurking in your own transmission.

Share that knowledge, brother. Way to go! Once you get "the fever" it has a tendency to hang on to you very aggressively!

Randy

P.S. Oh, and definitely take some pics and post them here.