how do you track down suspension squeaks?

[vash]

ok, after two days of car abuse, my front end on my SC is talking trash to me. it is sqeaking like a dying mouse. it sounds like the truck that pulls up to pick up the cardboard for recycling. it is really loud. how do you find it.? with the car up on stands you cant move things. and bouncing on the car doesnt really make it sound off that much. do i get my head down there and have a fat dude jump on the fender? i thinking sway bar mounting points but at this time it is an all out guess.

cliff

[cantdrv55]

Hey Cliff, remember when my Carrera had a squeak up front. It turned out to be the brake shield behind the rotor making contact with the A arm or ball joint or something else back there.

[juanbenae]

ive played to fat guy to some critical aclaim in past roles.

dumb ace does dallas

the good the fat and the ugly

a few good fatmen

and i was the stunt double in free willie.

[vash]

chris, this is definately a suspension squeak. i can get it to whisper when i push up and down on my door.

[Zeke]

It's really tough. The noise is hard to pin point, especially from within the car. Mnay times I've thought a noise was in the front, and it was in the rear.

Since the swaybar bushings are easier to lube, I'd do them and try it out. If still no relief, you'll have to pull the a-arms out, at least partially.
I guess you could just lube the front A-arm bushing after removing, but it seems to me that you could move the a-arm forward enough from the cross member to get at part of the bushing and hope the lube works its way down inside.

Sheesh, what a hassle. You might lose your ride height setting if you don't count turns on the adjuster and mark the adjuster index.

Sorry you have to go thru this.

[vash]

hmmmm. maybe some polybronze bushings are calling my name afterall.
i will look at an exploded view of the suspension, because at this point i have no clue. i dont even know how it comes apart.

[Wil Ferch]

Most of this "type" of noise is the deteriorating rubber A-arm bushing...that allows the ( previously concentric) torsion bar within.... to be placed off-center...and the TB now rubs on the cross member......

My money's on that .......if so, and the wear on the TB is noticable...you'd be best advised to replace the TB too. I think 914 part number rubber bushings are available to replace the ones you have..or you need to go to poly or poly-bronze.

---Wil

[Westy]

Cliff,,,I am offended that you are soliciting me to jump on your car!! Anywhose, I have poly bushings, and after I jacked up the front end, jeeeees did it squeak. It sounded like bad ball joints on a '69 impala. I just drove it around, and the sqeak went away. I think when we stress the suspension areas (driving, jacking, racing) the bushings get squeezed a bit. This is only my opinion, but everything is still tight on my car. I have also considered silicon spray. With that plastic straw on the spray nozzle, you can get that stuff in some mighty small places, and it doesn't collect dirt and dust as much as other oil based lubricants.

PS. I'll tell my wife to expect that beer!!!!

[vash]

wil, thank you for the reply. admittedly i dont know crap about suspension. i only have a 4x4 background and that was all about adding and raising stuff. my car has brand new hollow torsion bars. the PO installed them about 3 weeks before i bought the car. i peeked at the bushings last night and tried to decipher the reciepts. from what i could tell, the bushings are new, but OEM. hell, if i didnt peek at the polybushings on brad's SC over the weekend i wouldnt even know where the bushings were. i wonder if the mechanic would warranty his work to a new owner? hmmm.

[Schrup]

I had a squeek after I finished my suspension, but notice that I stopped when my hood was open. I turned out to be the hood latch. What a relief.

[Wil Ferch]

If aftermarket TB's were installed, it is likely that poly bushes were installed.
If they ween't trued to proper diameter ( most don't do this...see Chuck Mooreland's various threads on this), then the normal movement of the suspension will cause squeeks. Caveat..the suspension is now also in a partial "bind" and will be impossible to corner balance....
---Wil

[Randy Webb]

some general advice
2 major routes:
1. look at the easiest stuff to diagnose or fix first, or
2. look at the most common problems first

Like Wil said the history of what's been done to the car is imp.

More advanced is to try to figure out exactly when - under what conditions - the problem occurs.
In this case, -- if it comes to it -- you can put a small, cheap microphone various places while you drive and listen with headphones.
e.g. F vs R, L vs R, and go from there.

I'd check the things ID'd above as they are common problems. If that doesn't work, then start a more comprehesive and harder analysis. And take notes in a notebook ...
Good Luck

[juanbenae]

let me know when i need to come up for the new bushing install. ill even pick a set of chucks broonzies up at the elephant racing world headquarters in san jo on my way up. save you shipping that way..... you can mail the cash to me anytime.....

[vash]

ok, i just talked to the PO and the mechanic. both agreed new OEM bushings went back in. the mechanic seems to think the car will need torsion bar end cap adjustments? i may have gotten the terminology wrong because we ended up chatting about the autoX. turns out, my PO's previous blue SC was there too. and he (ct automotive) was there as a observer. he noticed my car and looked for todd (PO) and didnt find him because he didnt know the car sold.

[Schrup]

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
Caveat..the suspension is now also in a partial "bind" and will be impossible to corner balance....
---Wil

Wil, the polygraphite bushings I installed didn't require any lathing & are in no bind. I asked the tech at Fordahl Motorsports, while he was corner balancing my car, if they have ever had a problem corner balancing a car after installing poly bushings. I explained the sticktion theory that floats around this board & he told me has never had any problems with the poly bushings & corner balancing. These guys are the the most respected Porsche race suspension tuner in our area.

I have since put over 4k hard miles including track time on my car without any squeaks or problems of any kind. I respect your input on this board & am only conveying my own personal experience.

[rdane]

I have poly bushings..they squeak and the car corner balanced just fine.
Mine sound like a wheel bearing going bad (I have new wheel bearings) and are just barely audible. The wetter it is, the less noise there is. Good solution living near Seattle. A dry and dusty dirt road makes the noise crazy for a few miles. I try to stay off those!

[Randy Webb]

So, they are new but stock.... well, that lets out one major cause of sqeeking. At least it does if all the bushings were replaced.

Can you crawl under with a flashlight and look to see if anything is contacing anythig else? Look at the front ....

And you can't localize the sqeeking front or rear? Can a passenger do it? What if they swivel their head around while it is sqeeking?

[Wil Ferch]

Although Schrup and Rdane have other experiences....it should at least be a point to note that most often...the dimensions of the poly plastic bushings are not precise enough to prevent partial binding in rotation. Hence..the suggestion to ream/hone/lathe the ID to proper dimensions. It is conceivable with the loose tolerenaces of how these are made....that the ID of the bushings are simply too large to begin with...in that case there would be no binding and squeeking...but probably has a loose fit that may may make other parts of the TB move and possibly contact cross bars, etc....which cause squeeking, etc.

As true as what Shrup said in his post ( as it applies to his personal experience)...it is equally ( or more) common that they come delivered too tight with a too-small ID. If that is the case, the lack of free movement does indeed bind and cause mysterious corner balance difficulties..it is more than simple anecdotal theory.

Just keeping it respectful as Schrup so kindly did....

--Wil

[ChrisBennet]

Years ago I had squeaking control arms after I switched to larger torsion bars. I replaced the "worn out" bushing with poly ones in an attempt to recenter the torsion bar. It didn't help. I had to build up the adjuster cap to recenter the bar and keep it from rubbing and that fixed things.
-Chris

[dhaines]

Had the same problem and re-lubed my sway bar hard plastic bushings and it went away. Took me less than an hour, so that is a lot easier than pulling A arms. I used a silicon based grease to see if it would last longer, or use the stuff Pelican sells.