Handbrake for hill starts?

[billwagnon]

I had lunch with my boss and a client. Possibly irrelevant - my boss is British and the client was raised in Zambia.

They said when you use a manual transmission on a hill with a stop, you should use the handbrake to hold your position, then in a smoothly coordinated manner release the handbrake whilst applying gas and engaging clutch. I have never done this in my life. They said my way isn't so good for the clutch.

Which way is correct? I don't think I have even seen anyone use the handbrake on a hill start.

[MysticLlama]

That's how I do on some of the hills here in Seattle, for me it just matters how steep the hill is and how close the people behind me decided to crowd in.

[ZAMIRZ]

yeah, it depends on how good you are with the gas/clutch and how steep the hill is. If I find some idiot really riding my a$$ at a light on a hill I'll use the e-brake, but that rarely ever happens.

[KTL]

Originally posted by billwagnon
They said my way isn't so good for the clutch.

And how is their way necessarily "good" for the clutch?

Both methods slip the clutch to keep you from rolling backwards. Only difference is the non-handbrake method requires a quick release of the brakes and a quicker dump of the clutch with plenty of gas so as to not stall the car. Basically it's like a jackrabbitt start, which is of course not good for the clutch, nor many other things.

Using the handbrake reduces the shock to the drivetrain, but still slips the clutch disc more than the quick dump method.

So either way, a steep hill start is taxing the car a little. But i'd have to agree the handbrake method is a little less stressful on the car. I've done the handbrake deal on occasion and it works quite good when you get the hang of it. But sometimes you don't have time to do the handbrake method. For instance, waiting in line at a stop sign intersection (and moving forward one car length at a time and then stopping again) that has a steep hill.

[Early_S_Man]

Bill,

Your lunch guests were correct on all points! Waiting at a stop light or 4-way stop on a hill and using the clutch to keep from rolling is very, very hard on the clutch disk, flywheel, and pressure plate working surfaces! My wife does it, and I remind her she isn't doing the clutch any favors ... hasn't worked yet to halt the habit!

If you want to get somebody on your tail to back off ... put on the E-brake, and shift in and out of reverse a couple of times while revving the engine to 5000+ rpm, and tap the brake pedal between the shifting 'game' ... can be amusing at times, too ... watching them lurch backwards in a panic!

BTW, it is possible to use a heel-and-toe technique to control rolling on a hill without using the handbrake ... while taking off, but it is tricky if you haven't practiced ... impressive to passengers, though, when you pull it off smoothly on the first attempt from a 4-way stop! Might chirp the tires , though, and attract unwanted attention from the law! E-brake is easier to coordinate smoothly.

Kevin ... the E-brake method only stresses the clutch for the duration of a normal takeoff ... vs up two a couple of minutes waiting for traffic or a light to change ... BIG DIFFERENCE in the length of time overheating the clutch parts!!!

[KTL]

Originally posted by Early_S_Man

Kevin ... the E-brake method only stresses the clutch for the duration of a normal takeoff ... vs up to a couple of minutes waiting for traffic or a light to change ... BIG DIFFERENCE in the length of time overheating the clutch parts!!!

Agreed Warren. Anybody who's riding the clutch (balancing the gas and clutch position to keep the car motionless on the hill) is certainly doing his car a disservice!!!! Cook that disc in no time..............

[banjomike]

Guys, he wasn't slipping the clutch to sit still on the hill at the stopsign. Good lord no one could argue that is a good idea! He just wasn't using the handbrake to aid his restart. I live in the bay area and I occasionally find myself stopped on VERY steep San Francisco hills. I don't need the handbrake's help to get going gracefully, and I rarely let the car roll back more than a few inches. I do use it sometimes to avoid the slight extra clutch slipping.

My stepmom had an '80s Subaru wagon. If you were on a steep hill, you could engage the e-brake, and then disengage the e-brake handle, take your foot off the brake pedal, and the e-brake would stay engaged until you let out the clutch. Even frightened old ladies could gracefully get going on very steep hills with this feature.

[billwagnon]

The mere thought of riding the clutch gives me worms. There's a perfectly good brake pedal for when you're stopped - I don't even keep the clutch in if I'm going to be sitting there for more than a moment.

That Subaru sounds cool!

[trj911]

That is how I do it leaving my parking garage every day. Most days I have to sit in traffic on the ramp to get out and using the parking brake is much easier to do and easier on the clutch.

[KobaltBlau]

I do this all the time, too.

[Bill Douglas]

Hee hee, I live in one of the steepest cities in the world, and this is how we do it. Put on the handbrake (that's e-brake to you Yankies), give the car plenty of gas, let the clutch out, then let the handbrake off once you are actually moving forward. We spot the out of towners because they always roll back a bit and get flustered.

[masraum]

In England it's law or something or another that everytime you stop the car you apply the hand/emergency/parking brake. I've seen in several threads that if you don't use it when you stop you don't pass your driving test. I can quickly move my foot from the brake to the gas while releasing the clutch and not move more than 2-4 inches backwards and not have to spin the tires or slip the snot out of the clutch. It just takes some speedy footwork and smoothness. As the others said, if the hill is really steep or the car behind me is really close I'll use the brake.

[72doug2,2S]

Bill, coming from Virginia - down here we call'em "Damn Yakees" with a retarded (Er, I mean slow) accent

I use the handbrake all the time. I thought I was doing the car a big favor. Amazing what you learn on this board.

[john70t]

There's only so much friction material sandwiched between the pressure plate and flywheel.
Slam it and increase cylinder/rod bearing/linkage pressure, or ride it and make a nice, slippery heat treated glaze on the surface while the fingers get soft.

Leave a couple car-lengths and keep it in gear possible. I've gone through miles-long traffic jams without stopping, and the people probably thanked me.

[porcupine911]

i use the heel-toe method. i do of course know how to use the handbrake method as well.

my father once told me that part of his driving test involved a traffic cone with an egg placed atop it. The cone was butted up to the rear bumper with the car on an incline... broken egg = failure.

[TerryH]

Originally posted by billwagnon
Which way is correct? I don't think I have even seen anyone use the handbrake on a hill start.

My girlfriend had an almost brand new Toyota Celica given to her in 1975. She had no clue on how to drive a stick. I took her to the steepest hill and taught her to use the ebrake amongst other things. Many drivers new to shifting have nightmares of rolling back into something, most likely another car.

Turn the clock ahead 13 years and I bought that same girl, now my wife, a new Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. Problem with this car is the ebrake is a pedal and more of a hinderance than help on hills. Always thought if a car is manual, there should be a handbrake, not a footbrake.

[Schrup]

Be careful, you don't want your clutch to end up like mine.

[masraum]

WTF did you do to that thing??

[Trust Me]

The hand brake method is what is taught in driver training. It's more about safety and rolling backward than it is the clutch. Does not help the clutch any to have it half way engaged for any period of time though. Friction is the clutch's enemy. Just like the pic. above. friction won the battle.

[dd74]

I use the handbrake all the time on steep hills. I'm pretty conscious of 911 clutches, since the engine has to come out to install a new clutch.

Paul: what'd you do to get your SC down to 1800 pounds. Is it body panels or something?