2.7 swap begins

[Rick Lee]

Well, this project has been going on for a while. Sorry for only one photo, but we were pretty busy and forgot to take a lot of photos.



Time from driving the car into the garage to having engine/tranny out and separated was under 3 hrs. and that was taking our time. Talk about a Porsche playhouse, see the 996TT on top of the Ruf-modified '86 Carrera. Red car is a '70T and we're installing Marcesq's old, but well-sorted, 2.7. Garage has a super cold a/c and owner picked up one of those orange hydraulic engine carts. Having done numerous 911 engine drops the old fashioned way with floor jacks and wood blocks, it was quite a luxury to just push a button and lift the car off the drive train. Someday.....

If anyone out there knows about plumbing for this, I'm all ears. Fuel delivery looks like it's not gonna be compatible between the two engines. I don't wanna even think about ignition issues. We can't find the CDI box for the new engine. Will an MSD fix all that?

[Rick Lee]

Bump. Folks, please help. I need to know whether we need a CIS fuel pump, what kind of accumulator, MSD setup and would really like to hear from anyone who's done this. Please....thanks.

[slope-nz]

I'm behind in this but it would help to know what came out and whats going in. MY only experence is a 2.7 CIS to a 2.7 MFI. Good luck Randy

[Rick Lee]

2.2l with Webers came out and '77 2.7l CIS is going in.

[jpnovak]

You will need a CIS pump. You will also have to find the bracket that holds it to the steering cross member and relocate. This means running entirely new fuel lines. The current pump is likely under the rear passenger seat well just above the rear sway bar mount. It will have two lines coming in, feed and return, a third line will go up into the engine bay and to the carbs. The new pump can mount here but you will have to run a new return line down to the tunnel. Do this before the tranny is in. If you move the pump to the front you will also have to move the power hookups which come off the 14pin connector on the electronics board.

Yes you will need the accumulator and filter setup from a CIS engine.

You will also have to change the wiring from the 14pin connector on the engine side. There will be numerous changes and you will need both wiring diagrams to complete.

yes you can use an MSD. I think the 3pin CDI should be std for that 2.7. Isn't there still one mounted from the 2.2? Should be plug and play.

Now is a good time to just take off the CIS and mount those webers from the 2.2. It will be faster and a lot more fun. Of course, they would have to be rejetted.

[chuckw951]

Hi Rick,

If you can wait a couple of days, I have a fuel filter/accumulator assembly that you can have. I'm out in Annapolis. I bought this as I had originally intended to swap in a 3.0 CIS into my 69E. To simplify things I went with carbs and HPX ignition.

I have the filter/S-shaped fuel line/accumulator/clamps.



Sounds like a fun project; you'll enjoy the extra power and torque.

Have you thought about the oil lines? The line from the engine oil cooler to the oil tank may not be compatible.

You'll also have to think about gauges....not sure if the mid year oil pressure/temp gauges/tach will be compatible with the early gauges.

Regarding the fuel lines...the lines from the front of the car to the back were designed for lower pressures...CIS is a high pressure system...you may have to install new lines in the tunnel which I've heard is a PITA.

I was in your same spot exactly 1 year ago...lots of work but plenty of reward. If looking at my car up close would help (probably not much unless you go to carbs) also let me know.

Later.

[vash]

jamie is correct. on my 75 CIS car, the pump was located in exactly the location he is talking about. so maybe, the lines will not be that difficult to find. at least i hope so. but i know cis returns the excess fuel back to the gas tanks so you will have a plumbing issue there too. maybe a cis fuel tank will help out there.

[Oldporsche]

In my '70E the fuel pump was up front. The MFI fuel pump, which mine has, has a little higher psi rating. The CIS fuel pump from '74 on was located on lower left front side of engine compartment. I don't know what fuel lines you may have in the red car. If the car was injected to start with, you may have enough lines already in the car. At that point you may only need to put a CIS pump in where the original pump was.

You may get lucky.

David Duffield

[Rick Lee]

Thanks guys. This is very helpful. My vote is to stick with the carbs. But my friend already sprung for the new injectors and lines on the CIS system. Maybe we can eBay that stuff off, as it's unused and the whole CIS looks new. Is there a performance difference in 2.7 between CIS and Webers?

[klaucke]

I'm not positive, but I think you would pick up some ponies with the webers, or if not, at least you can run hotter cams that you couldn't run with CIS and that would make more power. But if you go for cams, do that before engine installation!

[jpnovak]

Chuck brings up a very good point. You will not be able to connect the oil lines. The 70 oil tank will have a smaller threaded fittings (26mm vs 30m?) for the scavange line and also a threaded fitting for the return line compared to a press on fitting that is clamped. You will have to swap the engine oil cooler from the 2.2 to the 2.7 to make it work. you should then be able to run the existing oil lines. The other option is to mount a later oil tank which requires cutting. Don't forget to change the cooler's seals while you are in there.

The 70T will originally be carbed. The T didn't get mfi until '72. The fuel pump will be by the sway bar mount.

WEbers will help driveability and throttle response. It will be a downgrade for fuel mileage. They will also need to be filtered well and may require tuning based on the seasons and air temp change.

If the engine ever plans to be warmed over. Install the webers now. It will save you time in the long run since CIS will not tolerate the cams that usually go with high compression pistons.

[KobaltBlau]

but if the engine still has stock CIS pistons there is no real advantage to webers since you can't run the cams to take advantage of the webers.

[Rick Lee]

The advantage here is ease of install!

[chuckw951]

Re: oil line. I also have an adapter that came with an early oil tank I recently bought, you can have it as I don't need it. Bascially allows one to use the rubber S hose with an early threaded tank. Another option is to install a later tank OR use an early engine cooler on the 2.7.

Re: Carbs. Yes, I think they make the install easier. Though you may need new manifolds? I'm not sure. PMO makes the injector block off plates and longer intake manifold studs...not exactly sure what you'll need. I think you might see an extra HP or two. If you want more down the road you could install different pistons and cams. I'm not sure what cams would work with the 2.7 CIS pistons to give you more power. But...with the 2.7 you will see good power and torque compared to the 911T motor.

How is your clutch? Now might be the time to replace that as well...though the 70/71 pkg is more expensive than other year clutches for some reason.

[Rick Lee]

Thanks Chuck. Somehow, he has an early 915 in there. So we got a LWF and aluminum pressure plate or whatever the Pelican super-duper clutch package was. That's already on the 2.7.

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
The advantage here is ease of install!

yes, and the disadvantage is gas mileage and drivability. May not be a problem for his application.

but what I meant above is no real performance advantage.

[Rick Lee]

Gas mileage and driveability are definitely not issues here. It's just a tinker toy.

[Fishcop]

I hope I'm not hijacking, but I'm in the middle of the same swap except I'm using webers et al. Chuckw951, I'd be really interested in a photo of your adapter or info on where to get one (I'll be visiting the US this month) as I have to use my old oil tank 'cause it's a sporto.

Thanks

[chuckw951]

Fishcop- I think you query is related...I'll take a picture on Monday and post it.

[chuckw951]

Here are two pictures of the oil line adapter...it allows the use of the later S hose with an early oil tank.