Cost and recommendations to convert an SC to aftermarket individual throttle body FI?

[TonyG]

I'm seriously considering removing the stock fuel injection on my SC.

I want an aftermarket fuel injection setup that has individual throttle bodies, that will also clear the a/c compressor.

I have experience and understand stand-alone fuel injection/ignition engine management systems, thus I'm only asking about the actual intake system/throttle linkage etc...

What's the TWM setup running? Are there any alternatives? (ie., less expensive). Pros vs Cons on the systems available?

Thanks,

TonyG

[emcon5]

This for a street car? It won't pass smog.

Do a search, this has come up about 4 times in the past 3 weeks.

Tom

[TonyG]

emcon5

It's a street car, smog isn't an issue, and I've searched.

But... I'll search again.

Thanks for your advise. No offense.. but I'm not a rookie.

I'm simply looking for which is the best system out there with respect to the linkage quality, construction quality, etc.. vs costs.

By the time I'm done, the car will run cleaner than the stock setup (and make more power). I've got the smog issues covered.... which is a non-issue for me.

TonyG

[Randy Webb]

"this has come up about 4 times in the past 3 weeks"

- It is obvious that an alien space ship has arrived here and is irradiating our planet with their nefarious "throttle body upgrade" ray gun. I urge all humans to resist this mind control device.

[TonyG]

Randy Webb

Sorry if my question is repetitive.

I just searched for the last 45 minutes back about 15 or so pages of this list... and didn't find anything remotely informative about the question I asked.

This is why I posted my question as a thread.


TonyG

[Randy Webb]

Just a joke - not meant to reflect on your question at all.

I'd guess a Motec based TWm setup, but I am a carb person.

One thread is on how to use motorcycle TB's and souk is the main poster; another has Bill Verberg commenting on Motec. You'll find them.

[Alan Cottrill]

TWM induction seems to be the easiest commercially available route for the throttle bodies. They have a setup that bolts to Weber manifolds and uses Weber linkage.

you supply the fuel delivery system, injectors, wiring and engine managment computer.

[MichiganMat]

TWMs run around 3K

The motorcycle bodies are from the Suzuki Huyabusa and are dirty-cheap but nothing has been done on the Porsche end. Some guys in the Honda world have used them successfully though. Mate up the suzuki stuff with a Megasquirt EFI system that one of the board members is selling and you'll probably have a nice setup for around 1800.00.

[TonyG]

Randy Webb

I've been looking at the PMO setup. It's certainly easier than a FI setup for sure, and appears to be the top-of-the-line carb setup. But, the inability to compensate for altitude changes, pressure changes, switched loads (air conditioning for example), engine mods (which require a ton of jet/veturi changes x 6 over andover, etc...) and more, for a street/track car, lead me to the only real option (to me that is....) which is fuel injection (which I've always known).


The only question is... which is the best FI setup.

I want a setup with a straight shot from the stack to the port. Not a setup that has bent runners, a setup with the ability to fit the a/c compressor, and a setup that has the highest quality throttle linkage.


TonyG

[Randy Webb]

I don't understand the anathema towards bent runners....

or how this is going to pass a visual inspection in LA.

good luck.

[smdubovsky]

TWMs aren't $3k. You can buy them from the guy who sells on ebay (competitionwarehouseusa) for $880 incl shipping (TWM3003-4603). You then need to source the linkage, air cleaners, and manifolds (btw, pmo make nice tapered ones in both a 40 and 46mm size and they include the "ear" at the bottom to block off the CIS injector hole) A Haltech E6 (or other ECU) and you'd be up and running. Oh, and you need a trigger. An electromotive crank pulley will work, but I used a 3.6 cup flywheel that has the motronic teeth. Looks very clean and factory (plus I needed a new flywheel anyway). If you have a 3.2 already, then your flywheel already has (two) trigger signals.

If you can shop around for the other parts and go w/ a megasquirt then you could probably do a whole setup for <$1200.

FWIW, I bought nearly new TWM 44mms w/ linkage, K&Ns, watersheilds, and the PMO manifolds for $700 ~2yrs back at the hershey swapmeet. Im currently running it w/ a Haltech E11 on my 3.3L twin plug 10.5:1 SC. Passes smog in MD just fine w/ the old cat exhaust fitted.

SMD

[ssetek]

Originally posted by smdubovsky
Oh, and you need a trigger. An electromotive crank pulley will work, but I used a 3.6 cup flywheel that has the motronic teeth. Looks very clean and factory (plus I needed a new flywheel anyway). If you have a 3.2 already, then your flywheel already has (two) trigger signals.

ISMD

does the 3.6 flywheel have a 60-2 tooth setup or is it a motronic style with no missing teeth.

[jpnovak]

Here are a few recent threads about ITBs

Project ITBs: Part 1-parts arrive

Independant TB's, where to buy??

custom individual throttle bodies? fab your own

Link to all individual throttle body threads

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=846957&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

[Bill Verburg]

does the 3.6 flywheel have a 60-2 tooth setup or is it a motronic style with no missing teeth.

Very confusing question. The 3.2 and 3.6 both use Motronic


But the part about the 3.6 was answered In this thread

Sound like Steve W. has an interesting setup along theses lines. I can't wait to find out more.

Most of the pure race cars I see are Motec or DTA w/ a smattering of Halltec

[old 911]

Tony call Neil at PD I think he has something along that line and you can check up on your 2.8 block there for your turbo. Travis

[ssetek]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
Very confusing question. The 3.2 and 3.6 both use Motronic


But the part about the 3.6 was answered In this thread

Sound like Steve W. has an interesting setup along theses lines. I can't wait to find out more.

Most of the pure race cars I see are Motec or DTA w/ a smattering of Halltec

im just verifying that the 964 uses a missing tooth setup, i am using autronic ems for this car and want the missing tooth setup for seqential inj and the 3.2 dme doesent use the missing tooth setup they use a 1 pin sensor for a tdc ref,
thanks

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by smdubovsky
FWIW, I bought nearly new TWM 40mms w/ linkage, K&Ns, watersheilds, and the PMO manifolds for $700 ~2yrs back at the hershey swapmeet. Im currently running it w/ a Haltech E11 on my 3.3L twin plug 10.5:1 SC. Passes smog in MD just fine w/ the old cat exhaust fitted.

SMD

Cool SMD. 70.4x100? This emissions passing was with 964 cams, right? Have you passed smog with anything hotter? Did you ever dyno the motor?

TIA.

[jpnovak]

FYI- I just got a price from the gentleman that SMD quoted for TWMs. $480/side = $960.

Jamie

[smdubovsky]

KobaltBlau,
Yes 70.4x100 = 3.32L. Also Yes on the 964 cam (I have to pass emissions for ~3more years). No dyno yet;) I got the motor together just in time to tune & breakin before my emissions test, and then took the car apart for an IROC conversion and paint. I'm hoping to have it done before the end of the year and will fine tune on the dyno then. I have too many projects (and the wife often forces the porsche down the list;(

BTW, I breezed through MD smog. I had <50mi of break-in & tuning before going to the emission nazis. I think it was cleaner then when I had CIS. In retrospect I could go bigger on the cam but didn't want to risk it. I'll just wait 3yrs for "historic" elegibility and put in GE-60s or 80s;)

SMD

[KobaltBlau]

Thank you for that response, SMD. I still have yet to hear of someone passing a smog test with a cam that doesn't work with with CIS. I'm not saying throttle bodies aren't an advantage, but the cams you need to really take advantage of them are probably not smog-compatible. it would be really interesting to see your dyno when you get that chance.

Actually, could you post your CO, HC, and NOx numbers? that would be really interesting.

Originally posted by Randy Webb
I don't understand...how this is going to pass a visual inspection in LA.

Me neither!