Trying to turn a 86 Carrera into CS

[wanabe911 owner]

Hello all! Hope all is well. Interested in turning my 86 Carrera sunroof coupe into a CS or lightweight version. Anyone out there have any friendly advice, parts list, etc? Anyone have any used parts that would help along. Thanks in advance.

[bigrubberjeep]

Well for one - Remove the rear seats and install the seat delete kit (shelf with small compartments right behind the seats)

[KobaltBlau]

you probably will want to post this in the 911 tech forum instead of the used parts for sale and wanted forum.

You might also search for "Club Sport," you should be able to find a list of deleted items.

[david c.]

I don't mean to stir up a hornets' nest, but I think all you really need is the sticker for the fender. It seems that everyone feels the true CS models aren't a whole lot different from a strong-running 3.2. I think aside from some interior differences and some "hollow valves" with a different redline, they aren't all that much different. I, for one, would rather take a nice 3.2 and sink the purchase price difference into some tasteful mods. No reason for the premium for a true CS unless you want a show car.

Not to derail your thread, but take a minute to tell us about your M Roadster. I bet that car is a hoot to drive. I'm thinking of buying a 2.8 Z3 from a family member. That car is pretty quick and I really can't imagine the zip of a M Roadster. Is yours the 315 HP version?

[sushinav]

I say do what you want. Less weight = free performance.

Oh and not knocking you, Bigrubberjeep. For looks, the shelf is correct. But it actually weighs as much as the rear seats!

For more speed, add lightness
- Colin Chapman

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by sushinav
I say do what you want. Less weight = free performance.

Oh and not knocking you, Bigrubberjeep. For looks, the shelf is correct. But it actually weighs as much as the rear seats!

For more speed, add lightness
- Colin Chapman

No worries, I figured he had done research and knew it was a "look" package more then it was a "performance" package.

So I started with the first obvious one. No rear seats and shelf.

[MIK911]

There's an article on the CS in the current issure of either "911 Porsche" mag or "GT Porsche" mag. Cant remember which, as i read both at the newstand this past wkend.

mike
'86 coupe

[911-32]

Because the CS was lightly specced, they generally end up quite a bit lighter than a "standard" 3.2 ie., no sunroof, no electric windows, no electric seats, no air-con, simple 2 speaker stereo. They also seem to make more hp than the factory figures suggest. The blueprinted engines are regularly dynoed at 235-240hp (at the flywheel) in the UK.

To do a creditable impression of a CS you just need to loose a bit of weight (and perhaps find a little hp). My 1989 3.2 (with no aircon but nearly a full tank of gas and most every option) weighed a scarcely believable 1330kg before I started to lighten it a little. I removed the rear seat backs, changed to race type shell seats, replaced the spare tyre with a couple of cans of tyre mending goo and pulled some superfluous carpet and mats out. Result was 1250kg (with less fuel but with bigger wheels, bigger torsion bars and bigger brakes). The book weight for my G50 car (with basic spec and completely dry - no fuel, oil or windscreen washer fluid - is 1250kg). My car is now basically CS weight without too much effort ie about 60kg under book weight or the same as a small passenger.

I chose to spend money on further modifications rather than buy a CS or something newer. It will return pennies on the dollar in terms of my wallet but the enjoyment I get is immeasurable. I have done all the usual stuff - 22/29mm Sanders hollow T-bars, Bilsteins, adjustable sway bar, 7/9x16 Fuchs, polybronze bushings and perhaps unusually 944T brakes. The engine is std euro 231hp spec with SW chip and CS rev limit. Modifying engines creates havoc with your insurance in the UK so that is why it remains currently standard.

I was able to do a rough and ready comparison with a CS on track earlier this summer. The CS was stripped out and half-caged and is used for hill climb competition. We had similar Dunlop DO1J competition tyres although I was +1 wider (205/50-225/45 vs 225/45-245/45). I suspect we were similarly competent drivers (he hill climbs while have previous limited race experience and more recently lots of track days) but I found I could keep up while short shifting at 6,000rpm. While completely unscientific, it provides some basis for saying that in terms of lap times at least, you can get very close to (or indeed quicker) than a CS, with a fairly lightly modified 3.2. My personal opinion is that in terms of driving experience, you can get very close to the CS experience with a lightly modified 3.2. If you can lose 50kg of weight, have good fresh bushings and shocks and perhaps an SW chip and cat bypass then you have 90% of the CS experience.

HTH
Richard

[911-32]

Forgot to include a picture or two.

[Deeks]

911-32 ....you forgot to mention the reduced drag coeficient due to the 964 teardrop wing mirrors !

[wanabe911 owner]

Dave,

Yes the MZ3 is a "hoot and a half" to drive, actually its quite a handfull and you could swap ends real easy if your not paying attention. I have made quite a few mods, including a Vortech SC, Schrick Cams, injectors, software tune, Clutch, alum flywheel, koni adjustable, H&R springs, Super Sprint DTM tipped exhaust. Dynoyed at 335hp at the wheels. I would say its a great car, not the best handleing car i have driven, I would probaby add sway bars next. And no this is the stock 240 hp version, not the 315 hp. Here is a pic!

[david c.]

If I recall correctly, the 2.8 Z3 had a 51/49 weight distribution. Yet, I've heard others complain about the handling too. I'm surprised no one has set one up yet that takes advantage of the nearly perfect weight distribution. I know it's tail happy, even the 190 hp 2.8 will turn around on you in a flash. It's kinda fun in the rain with the traction control off.

[wanabe911 owner]

Does not have to be raining! Basically just press the loud pedal all the way down in any gear under 4th, and you will be sliding! Lots of fun, but will scare the hell out of you if your not planning on it!

[Deeks]

Do you guys have the M coupe over in the States? http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/gallery/bmw-75/1995-2004_page_2.html

It's one of the few BMWs that I wouldn't mind owning some time.

[wanabe911 owner]

The shop that did some work on my MZ3 did a M coupe that is a monster "Active Autowerkes" something like 600 hp! Downright scary!

[unimog]

Originally posted by Deeks
Do you guys have the M coupe over in the States? http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/gallery/bmw-75/1995-2004_page_2.html
It's one of the few BMWs that I wouldn't mind owning some time.

Deeks
According to the lastest 'European Car' (Oct 04) 150 came to the U.S. as 2001 models, and "a handfull" as 2002s.

[unimog]

Originally posted by 911-32
Because the CS was lightly specced, {snip}
HTH
Richard

WOW!
Richard, what a great and informative write-up! I sure liked hearing about your modifications, and your 'real-world' experience.
Thanks a lot.

[klaucke]

A kid, thats right student, drives at M coupe at my college, Worcester Poly Tech. I always drooled over it, but who knew (apparently) less than 200 came to the states!

[wanabe911 owner]

Richard, Beautiful Car! Very informative write up, love the pic's

[wanabe911 owner]

Great take out some weight add some power, now were getting somewhere. Lets start with intake, exhaust and software, and recomendations, I dont care if the exhaust is loud!