Safety issues (half rant)

[GeorgeK]

OK, what did we have the last few weeks:
-One car burnt to the ground,
-One car stolen
-One guy hitting the windshield with his head *while* attached
-A few cracked Fuchs
-One broken torsion bar
From this may I suggest to all the pelicanites:
1-Buy a fire extinguisher (at least you'll have tried if it happens)
2- put some simple anti-theft device (hide a switch to the fuel pump)
3- GET NEW SEATBELTS. That scares me the most. I mean our belts are on average 20 years old, when you think that a climbing rope is changed every 6 years at the latest, even if not used.
4-Crawl under your cars and check the suspension bushings, and the rims
5-Buy new brake and fuel lines, all the rubber ones.

What's the price of all this? I dunno, but ask some here if it is expensive.

*Rant off*
GeorgeK

[Bobboloo]

What's the saying about an ounce of prevention?

It's worth a pound of protection I think.

Okay, well in Switzerland I guess it would be in metric terms but you get my drift.

That's the thing that p*ssed me off the most about that nightclub fire that was the result of the band Great Whites stupidity. Sure people make mistakes but that's why you have backup plans. They're called "fire extinguishers". That's all it would have taken to save all those lives. One fire extinguisher within five feet of the flashpot.

It's just unforgiveable that this *sshole band went from club to club setting off flashpots without carrying a fire extinguisher to have there on the stage for emergencies.

OK rant off for me too.

[Dave Ploss]

I'm the Safety Director for a large company and I agree with both of the previous posts.

I bought an 87 911 last fall and I'm not going to be comfortable until I am sure that the suspension, brakes, and fuel systems are 100% reliable. Right now I'm starting to redo the front suspension....on from there.

We all know and say that these cars are race cars. We need to treat them like race cars and take all of the precautions. Like most of us here, I know my capabilities and try to drive within them and take into account the other folks on the road who may not be as accomplished.

What scares me is what I don't know about that can bit me in the butt. I'm going to make PERSONALLY sure the critical systems are right.

And then I'm going to get a fire extinguisher for the car.

This endeth the current rant.

Dave

[s2per]

Ever since the night eight years ago when I saved a friend's classic Packard from burning to ground with my 911's fire extinguisher, all my vehicles have one.

As a sideline, he pulled out the old straight 8 and put in a 500cid Cadillac with THM, but that's another story....

In defence of the guy whose car burned up, he did have a halon extinguisher and promptly used it.

You're right though, even though they may not be enough to contain a particularly nasty fire, it's a good idea to carry one.

Just don't attach it to an 'A' pillar so it clubs your girlfriend in the head in an accident.

Hmmm, that might explain why some ricer's girlfriends are the way they are.

[GeorgeK]

The point is not to criticise the victims of all the mishaps mentionned there, it is just to make people aware that stuff we consider for granted, like seatbelts and rubber hoses, no longer are in our cars, even more so because we drive them aggressively. The brake lines on my 1988(!) 951 Cup showed big aneurysms when I changed them preventively.
Maybe before that nice steering wheel, or must have rear wing, a few fuel lines and a fire extinguisher, or a few relays would be a wiser investment.
GeorgeK

[Glasgow 911SC]

"3- GET NEW SEATBELTS. That scares me the most. I mean our belts are on average 20 years old, when you think that a climbing rope is changed every 6 years at the latest, even if not used. "

Yep. I've got a new set ready to be fitted. About my broken T-Bar- I'm now kind of nervous about the rears but I don't have the cash to change over!

[Joeaksa]

George,

Agree completely! Have carried a fire ext in all my cars for the last 25 years. Had a car go up on me and it was saved by a friend who put the fire out while I was rolling on the ground having fun. Since that time have not had one fire but have put three other peoples car out so its worth having.

Changing my belts this week as well along with the installation of new seats. In the aircraft world we do it every 10 years or if the label is not readable and feel that this is also a good time frame for cars.

Joe

[dickster]

you are so right, so far its cost me loads and i haven't got the car back yet.

weeks of endless hassle and stress - mainly with insurance companies.

not a pleasant experience.

oh and btw i just found out that most insurance companies (uk at least) do not cover loss in value due to "stolen/recovered" records

i got blasse about my car. didn't think anyone would be interested in a 16 year old car.

keep 'em locked up safe.

[Lothar]

I will probably have to agree on the fuel lines. After reconstructing my fire in my head and analyzing the evidence, my conclusion is that fuel started the fire and that it was in the vicinity of the fuel filter and accumulator. Probably a bad fuel line or poor connection. I will post pictures later today.

Seat belts: Check - new 5 pt. harnesses driver and passenger.

Fire Extinguisher: Check - Halon, fully charged and checked when install in the car weeks prior.

[tsuter]

You mean there are actually people driving 20-30 year old well maintained 911s without fire extinguishers?
Not sure if Halon is still widely available.

[Superman]

Two extinguishers. One Halon for the Porsche engine compartment (too spendy to use on other folks' car fires). The proper procedure is to leave the lid closed, point the extinguisher into the grille and empty the contents (5 lbs). Another extinguisher for fires anywhere else on your car, or anywhere on someone else's car. Dry chemical. Overall, dry chemical is twice as effective as Halon. It just leaves a mess, that's all.

[tsuter]

One of my EPA buddiues said Halon is not yet banned but would be cleaner but less effective in an open fire in a Porsche car engine. Best to use in your plane's cockpit when you ain't landing anytime soon!

"For a number of years, Halon was in danger of being outlawed because it could contribute to depleting the Earth's ozone layer. But, in fact, when it is used to extinguish fires, it is neutralized by the fire as it extinguishes it. The approved way to dispose of unwanted Halon is to release the gas into a furnace which neutralizes the chemistry of the Halon. Also, if there is no fire, there will be no need to spray the Halon. As the Environmental Protection Agency now concedes, Halon is a highly effective agent for fire fighting in closed passenger carrying areas. Even if it is not needed for fire extinguishing, it is the best fire insurance policy you can buy."

[gregk1]

Hallon works well as Super said leave the lid closed because Hallon displaces oxagen and with out it No fire!

[Wayne 962]

We have halon right here:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/DWKS_safety.htm

-Wayne

[makaio]

Something I would like to add is, if you have never used an extinguisher on a real fire, then take a course or have a local FD give you some training.

[JWest]

Wayne, can you get numbers to see if you have increase in extinguisher sales this week?

[tsuter]

Here is what NASCAR has to say about it.
If someone made a compact auto suppression Halon kit for under the rear deck, I'd probably buy it.
In the meantime I'll stick with the BC.
From 2003 Irwindale NASCAR track rules.....

17. PERSONAL SAFETY EQUIPMENT AND ROLL BARS

(a) General Safety:

(1) For all safety devices it is the responsibility of the driver, not Irwindale Speedway, its officers, or its agents to ensure his/her safety device systems are correctly installed, maintained, and properly used at all times.

(2) As with all safety items Irwindale Speedway strongly recommends that the driver carefully study all manufacturer’s installation and usage guidelines and adhere to these recommendations to the highest extent possible.

(b) Protective Clothing:

(1) It is recommended that at all times, the driver wears a driving suit and gloves of fire resistant material that effectively covers the body.

(2) It is recommended that the driver’s suit be of the best quality fire protection available.

(3) It is also recommended that during an event, practice, or qualifying a driver wears the following: Fire Resistant Shoes and Socks, Fire Resistant Hood, Fire Resistant Underwear.

(c) Fire Control:

(1) It is recommended that all cars have a built-in, fully charged, Halon 1211, Halotron-1, or equivalent fire suppression system (not of the dry chemical type), with an operating pressure gauge.

(2) Any car not equipped with a built-in fire suppression system must have a fully charged fire extinguisher, a Halon, or equivalent type at least 10-B:C UL rating, with an operating pressure gauge, securely mounted to the right side of the driver’s seat, and readily accessible for use.

(3) All entrants should have a 10-lb. Halon 1211, Halotron-1, or equivalent fully charged fire extinguisher in their pit area.


Now for the injuneers - Is this Halon or Chem????

[makaio]

HArd to tell from the picture (too small for my eyes) but it looks like a chem extinguisher.

[CamB]

It is quite annoying, but halon has been outlawed in New Zealand. Ozone-eater (we have a thin to non-existent ozone layer above us).

Motorsport competitors can continue to use old ones only if they:

a) get them tested
b) promise to never ever discharge them except at a fire (it used to be common to use them on radiators at a pit stop, for example)

Or so I am told.