starter problem - help!

[slater]

Okay- I got my engine in, everything hooked up, bolted up the starter, and tried to start it. When I go to start it, I just get a "click!" from the starter. It sounds louder than a dead battery click, but I tried a new battery and no luck. I then figured a bad connection, but they all seem clean. I took out the starter (which I used to start this engine before) and tried another starter, same result. Tested the starter outside the car with a battery, and it spun up fine. SO.. now i am lost. Any ideas? Is it common to need to use shims to align the started properly? It almost sounds l ike the starter gear is coming out, but it is hitting and not spinning. I have been working on this since 4:00 pm, it's now 1:00 am, and I am out of ideas! Any help is greatly appreciated!! I have searched the archives, but havent found anything. Thanks!

[Quicksilver]

Need more info. Weird that 2 different starters are doing the same thing. I'm going to assume that they are using separate solenoids during the tests.

Try turning on the headlights with the garage door closed to see if the beam dims when you try to crank it. If the starter is trying to spin the engine you should see a noticeable dimming of the lights. If it dims a lot it is producing a lot of "work" so something should happen. (or the battery is 99% dead)

Sounds like you have done some sort of engine or transmission work. The engine could be jammed so it won't rotate.

Another good test is to unbolt the starter but leave it attached to the wires. Make sure the wires/cables are VERY well insulated. Try cranking it. That will tell you if the cars wiring is capable of spinning it. NOTE! If the positive starter cable touches any metal you will get a short that looks like an explosion! Oh, and the starter is going to jerk pretty good when it is spun.

Don't try cranking for very long because things can melt down very fast in the starting circuit.

Wayne

[oneblueyedog]

I've lived with this plague for the past year and a half.

Checked voltages at the starter and battery- all great
I've replaced:
Battery 2 times.
Starter switch- PIA
Solenoid
Starter and solenoid
Cleaning all grounds-all of them
cleaned all the terminals-for the circuit-some were untouched from the factory, and green.
cleaned engine harness terminal plug.
Cussed.
Posts on the subject go over all of this. One dude ran an extra yellow wire directly to the starter. It solved it.

I start mine (an intermittent problem) by twisting the key multiple times
until it starts. Embarrassing.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by oneblueyedog
I've lived with this plague for the past year and a half.

.

sometimes I'll track a bad connection or bad wire by leaving the key turned to start for 10seconds when it fails to start . Then quickly hand grab the connections, after turning to off, and feel for heat. If you suspect the yellow wire garb it and feel for heat in the sol area.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by RoninLB
sometimes I'll track a bad connection or bad wire by leaving the key turned to start for 10seconds when it fails to start . Then quickly hand grab the connections, after turning to off, and feel for heat. If you suspect the yellow wire garb it and feel for heat in the sol area.

Great tip Ron...I'm going to try to remember this one...

[Jim Sims]

Is the body to transmission ground strap connected? Jim

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Great tip Ron...I'm going to try to remember this one...

ok.. if not sure where the bottle neck is then grab the ends of the battery connections, battery posts, terminals at the starter solenoid, the big battery terminal on the starter and the ground connections.

the routine sol clicking with the starter failing to turn over probably means the internal sol contacts are dirty. The starter sol contacts usually somewhat cleans themselves from the slaming during normal operation.
I'll try disconnecting the starter battery wire and "start" the sol slamming about a dozen times.. whatever.

[oneblueyedog]

I guess I could take the solenoid apart and clean it sometime.

I've taken one apart before and it was filthy in the contact area from arcing.

Thanks.

[slater]

Alright, I figured it out! It was one major short in between the battery and the starter. Thanks for your help guys!

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by slater
It was one major short in between the battery and the starter.

how about some details ?

[Quicksilver]

Originally posted by oneblueyedog
I guess I could take the solenoid apart and clean it sometime.

I've taken one apart before and it was filthy in the contact area from arcing.

Thanks.

I've taken GM, Ford, Mazda, Toyota, and Nissan solenoids apart. I tried to take the Porsche one apart and discovered that they are designed so you can't take them apart. Then I discovered that they don't sell just the solenoid. (greedy I think)

Have you found a way to disassemble the solenoid so they can be put back together? If so I would like details!


Wayne

[slater]

how about some details ?

Well, I used my multimeter to check the voltage at the terminal on the starter. It read 0, but when I tugged on the wire it would jump around a little. I started tracing the cable back, and as I ran my hand up the wire it stared sparking like crazy when I moved it. It turned out to be a crack in the wire cover, and it was touching where the wire came out of the body. I am suprised it didn't spark when I hooked up the battery. Anyway, a little electrical tape and it was all ready to go! Works great!

[3.2 CAB]

To take one apart you have to de-solder the connector. Once you remove that it will slide apart. You will see what I am talking about when you try to take it apart, you will then have to remove the solder to finish getting it apart. Then you will have to solder it back together again then tighten the fasteners. I took mine apart about 6yrs ago, cleaned, lubed it, worked great, after I ran the new yellow wire from the ignition switch to it. Old yellow wire tested good for continuity, but the resistance was so far out of specs, it would not carry the load. No more starter failures so far.