Can an actual Fuch be made with a CNC?

[82SC]

This may be a stupid question...

But I've seen many wheel being made on shows like "american chopper" and "american hotrod" etc...

I am wondering if the center piece can be milled on a CNC machine and then welded Lindsey Wheels style

Not that I have anything againt Jack's wheels, but I think it would just look so much more "right" if the center matched the diameter of the rim

"real" 17" or even 18" Fuchs of all widths....SAHWEET

anyone photoshop what this would look like?

MJ

PS yes yes I know it would not be a real Fuch since it is not forged...

[HarryD]

The short answer is no. The forging process is what gives the metal its strength while minmizing the amount of metal required.

If you copy exact the design by machining a piece of stock, the spokes of the wheel are not strong enough. This is why the replica fuchs are frowned upon. Do a search and read for yourself.

[Rufblackbird]

yeah but aren't the replica Fuchs made out of cast aluminum? I think ones made out of billet aluminum (maybe spokes need to be thicker?) would be stronger. I could be wrong...haven't been in this field for that long.

In reality you could probably CNC a 18" one piece Fuch instead of having to weld it to inner and outer lips.

[jim72911t]

Oh Boy...................

The short answer to your question is yes, but at what cost? The Fuchs wheel is forged, which, for lack of a better term, squeezes" (or pounds, hammers, etc.) metal into a very strong shape. There are a few reasons why forging produces such a strong part (most of which I'm not qualified to explain), but, as I understand it, the "grains" of metal are oriented in such a way as to create a strong and stress free part.

You may have heard that many of the cast Fuchs replicas are prone to failure. This is because the casting process does not produce nearly as strong of a part as the forging process, but casting can be done at a much lower cost.

Back to the original question: Yes, a Fuchs wheel center could be recreated on a CNC milling machine. Problem is, the Fuchs wheel has many complex 3D contours, which means BIG cycle times on the machine. Big cycle times equal big money. The wheels that you see on the chopper shows are actually pretty simple to make on a CNC, despite what the hosts lead you to believe.

Plus, it would be nearly impossible to duplicate the strength of a forged wheel with CNC machining. The wheel would have to machined from either billet (which would not have grain structure ideal for use in a faux Fuchs application), or cast plate (which wouldn't even come close).

Think about it: What kind of stresses are put on a "chopper" wheel? Heck, most are barely ridden, let alone taken on the track. There's a reason that there aren't a whole lot of people making quality Fuchs replicas.

And, please, don't make me get out my old text books! They were hard enough to figure out the first (and second, and third) time.

Jim

[kstar]

Replica Fuchs are cast, yes?

I know the Fikses are CNC "machine forged" aluminum.

I don't know why the same process could not be applied to a Fuchs unless the shape is somehow not appropriate for this process.

FWIW.

Kurt

[slater]

I am no photoshop expert but I was bored so what the heck right?


by the way, I don't know who's car this is, but man thats a purdy car!

[masraum]

or at least it was until the Fuchs were made into 19" fuchs with a 20% aspect ratio.

Yep, nice car, but I prefer the look of original Fuchs, Lindsey style 17's or HRE style Fuchs

[Steve RSM]

You are talking low cost I assume. You could create a new forging assuming you were worried about grain flow, but I don't think that is as big of consideration as just plain allowable stress.

As machined plate stock gets thicker it loses material properties so its easy to machine relatively thin motorcycle wheels and still get reasonable properties. Thick stuff like 9-10 inch plate for wheels is not so common (in fact you might need some sort of hand forging) and not so strong, but still much stronger than cast aluminum and maybe stronger than the original forged material used on the Fuchs.

Steve

[ubiquity0]

I guess you could CNC a fuch replica. Probably cost a couple grand a piece.... for a fake fuchs

[Jack Olsen]

Making the windmill part bigger doesn't look so good, in my opinion.

Isn't that Chuck Miller's car?

[v9ff]

We'd have to have Chip Foose do an episode of Overhaulin with a 911 to really find out. What a sight that would be!

[Mark sP]

I agree with Jack.

[Quicksilver]

Yes, there are cast replica Fuchs. Yes, they are heavy. Yes, they are prone to cracking. Yes, they will never go anywhere near a car I own.

A cast wheel when damaged will crack. A forged wheel will bend but retain some structure while absorbing lots of energy.

A forged Fuch is under 20 pounds. The cast Turbo Twists that a lot of people put on their car are somewhere around 30 pounds. This additional unsprung weight makes if much harder for the tire to follow the road. Think light, light, light.

The Lindsey (and other) modified Fuchs retain the forged centers where the stress loading is highest and have proven themselves reliable. They are also very low cost for what you are getting.

If you want to put some heavy blivit of a wheel on your car just for looks, then that is your choice but it flies in the face of everything that is good about the 911.

If you want 18s then get some nice forged Kinesis or Fiskes. They have proven themselves to be very good and very light.


Wayne

[911nut]

All Fuchs weren't forged. According to Frere in "Porsche 911 Story" the 6x15 wheels and later the 7x15 wheels that were on the SC in '78 were cast. The 16 inch Fuchs were forged.

[plain fan]

It could just be the photoshop but I think it looks a little "bling". IMO

[andyjboy]

911nut - all Porsche Fuchs wheels were forged.

The other alloy wheels used on 911's - Cookie Cutters & Telephone Dials - were cast.

[slater]

I don't think it looks so much as "bling" as cartoonish.

[midlife]

I think on the chopper shows, they said that two custom wheels is about $25,000. This is easy to believe when you consider design, programming, set up, and billets.

But hey, if you've got the money...

[Mattias Hellore]

I´m a NC operator, I don´t think the cycle times are so crucial in money wise direction.

The most crucial part is to construct a exact fuchs replica but retain the lightness.

I could do it but it should take me forever to program a good code and letting a Miyano TSV 25 CNC machine to mill that.

It´s more time consuming than a billet motorcycle wheel because of the lack of Z depth calculations.

Its two sides in a wheel to mill too!

Kinesis split rims are easier because of the simplicuty in Z depth.

[Quicksilver]

Originally posted by slater
I don't think it looks so much as "bling" as cartoonish.

Bling is cartoonish!

How about 17" of porn from another thread?


Ohhhhhh baby. . .

Wayne