101 projects....locksmith?

k9handler · 09-27-2004, 11:36 AM

I was doing some reading through the 101 projects and the one that I am thinking of doing is the re-keying of my door locks. At the moment I have one key for the doors and another for the ignition. Have any of you performed this and if so what are some of the things to watch out for? The project described by Wayne seems pretty straight forward, but I always can use a few more suggestions and ideas.

For example I was thinking should I re-key the doors to match the ignition key...or re-key the ignition to match the doors?

William Miller · 09-27-2004, 12:00 PM

I think I've herd it's harder to rekey the ignition.
I'm restoring my car and had the door lock cylinder in my hand last night.

Once you pop the panels off there not that hard to get off.

While you're doing it think about all the options. Like the glove box and a valet key. Mine also has a master and an alarm key. (Alarm key useless now.)

I hope to do this as well and lighten the load on my key ring!
I have rekeyed many locks (Was a property manager.) But not these car locks where they have the square tupe tumblers instead of the pins.

Can anyone confirm this?

Randy Webb · 09-27-2004, 12:02 PM

I changed the door locks around on mine a few years ago. It's easy, just don't drop anything.

k9handler · 09-27-2004, 12:09 PM

thanks...currently I have a red valet key for the ignition and a black key for the doors so I am assuming the ignition was replaced or something.

Hetmann · 09-27-2004, 12:30 PM

I did this recently and rekeyed some new (to me) door locks to match my old ones. Very doable and good to get in there and clean/lube things up. I discovered that some of my tumblers were frozen in place. Hard to find the tumblers. I never was able to. You can file them down if need be, but this is precision work.

rcm · 09-27-2004, 01:33 PM

I have had a locksmith re-key several car locks over the years. They can key anything if they are good.

HarryD · 09-27-2004, 06:40 PM

K9,

I rekeyed my trunk and glove box this winter. After 2 months of searching for tumblers I gave up and had my locksmith do it. I asked him about getting pins and he just laughed.

k9handler · 09-27-2004, 11:06 PM

thanks for the info...my thought was to take the ignition key and insert it in the door tumbler to see how many of them did not match up. If it's only a couple of them I could file them down and the tumbler would then work with the ignition key, then an issue would be the car would be a little easier to pick into.

Split50 · Split50's Garage

I re-keyed my ignition to match the door locks last year, from what I can remember its not easy.
The ignition isn't designed to come apart like the door locks, theres a pin to remove and you have to file the end off the lock barrel to remove it then JB weld it back on afterwards.
Its possible to do it but I wouldn't reccomend it.

Tim

FranksPlace2 · 09-28-2004, 07:00 AM

I bought an original key from Porsche but it didn't work anywhere. I have rekeyed both doors, the trunk and the glove compartment. I bring the lock to a locksmith.

msailer · 09-28-2004, 07:46 AM

Having been a locksmith for a number of year (second job), just bring your door locks and ignition key to them. It should take all of 10 minutes to rekey both door locks.

Pin kit are very pricey for automotive locks, $100+. Generally the kits are specific to a particular brand and then a range of years.

k9handler · 09-28-2004, 07:56 AM

thanks Mark...that is probably what I will do. I did get my new key blanks from our host today and went to the key shop and had them cut, man they work so nice.

William Miller · 09-28-2004, 08:20 AM

Mark, I have rekeyed many residential and commercial door locks.
Mostly Schlege. For others the numbers on your original Schlege keys and I guess most others corespond to the depth of the notches cut in the key. I have a tool that works sort of like a hole punch that cuts the notches in the key based on the number(depth you want) This is how they duplicate keys by the number. (So record your numbers and a locksmith can cut one exact.) The key machines in the hardware simply duplicate the original key you give them. Over time as generations of keys are made they get slopy. So it 's best to keep the number, second keep an original key and don't use it.

The way a master works is with a combination of pins of different sizes that will work with 2 keys. It's not really that there is a master key for one lock. Just two keys work in it. In fact other keys will work in it too but the chances are relativly slim and a computer can spit out the codes that are seperated so the chances are less. In a building there are masters because one key can open many doors.

So my question: Mark there are several different keys that originally came with the car. How do they make a master with the square wafers?

I know this has been done before, but can someone make a list of the different locks and what keys are supposed to work them?

My 83 SC Euro Cab has:
Ignition
Right Door
Left Door
Trunk release pull
Glove Box
Alarm

I have a bundle of keys and I know the ignition switch was replaced.

Are they all supposed to be the same key blank?

I recall that there should be one key (Master) that does it all.
A Valet Key does what?
Is the alarm key seperate?

HarryD · 09-28-2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by William Miller
Mark, I have rekeyed many residential and commercial door locks.
Mostly Schlege. For others the numbers on your original Schlege keys and I guess most others corespond to the depth of the notches cut in the key. I have a tool that works sort of like a hole punch that cuts the notches in the key based on the number(depth you want) This is how they duplicate keys by the number. (So record your numbers and a locksmith can cut one exact.) The key machines in the hardware simply duplicate the original key you give them. Over time as generations of keys are made they get slopy. So it 's best to keep the number, second keep an original key and don't use it.

The way a master works is with a combination of pins of different sizes that will work with 2 keys. It's not really that there is a master key for one lock. Just two keys work in it. In fact other keys will work in it too but the chances are relativly slim and a computer can spit out the codes that are seperated so the chances are less. In a building there are masters because one key can open many doors.

So my question: Mark there are several different keys that originally came with the car. How do they make a master with the square wafers?

I know this has been done before, but can someone make a list of the different locks and what keys are supposed to work them?

My 83 SC Euro Cab has:
Ignition
Right Door
Left Door
Trunk release pull
Glove Box
Alarm

I have a bundle of keys and I know the ignition switch was replaced.

Are they all supposed to be the same key blank?

I recall that there should be one key (Master) that does it all.
A Valet Key does what?
Is the alarm key seperate?

Bill,

I can't speak for the alarm but my Master Key (black head) works in all my locks. The Master key has an extra groove that the Valet (red head) does not. You need the extra groove to get the key into the trunk and glove box lock tumblers.

safecracker · 09-28-2004, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by William Miller
Mark, I have rekeyed many residential and commercial door locks.
Mostly Schlege. For others the numbers on your original Schlege keys and I guess most others corespond to the depth of the notches cut in the key. I have a tool that works sort of like a hole punch that cuts the notches in the key based on the number(depth you want) This is how they duplicate keys by the number. (So record your numbers and a locksmith can cut one exact.) The key machines in the hardware simply duplicate the original key you give them. Over time as generations of keys are made they get slopy. So it 's best to keep the number, second keep an original key and don't use it.

The way a master works is with a combination of pins of different sizes that will work with 2 keys. It's not really that there is a master key for one lock. Just two keys work in it. In fact other keys will work in it too but the chances are relativly slim and a computer can spit out the codes that are seperated so the chances are less. In a building there are masters because one key can open many doors.

So my question: Mark there are several different keys that originally came with the car. How do they make a master with the square wafers?

I know this has been done before, but can someone make a list of the different locks and what keys are supposed to work them?

My 83 SC Euro Cab has:
Ignition
Right Door
Left Door
Trunk release pull
Glove Box
Alarm

I have a bundle of keys and I know the ignition switch was replaced.

Are they all supposed to be the same key blank?

I recall that there should be one key (Master) that does it all.
A Valet Key does what?
Is the alarm key seperate?

Your experience with pin tumbler locks is totally different than wafer/disc locks. Pin tumbler master keying is done by loading multiple pins in a single chamber, therefore creating more than one combination in each chamber that is master-keyed.

Wafer locks master keying is done by using stepped wafers. The Master keyblank has a blade on the opposite side than the change key, therefore creating a different combination. When I say opposite I am not talking the other side, I mean the same side of the key, but the blade is to the left or right.

When talking master keys for a particular car, that is a different thing. Although there are a number of ways to accomplish it, the most common way is done by a keyblank difference between "master" and "valet". The individual car is NOT truly master-keyed in the true sense of the word.

For the original poster, it is much easier to key door locks to match the ignition because the locks are easier to disassemble. Phil

William Miller · 09-30-2004, 09:28 AM

Thanks Phil and Harry.

I conclude that on my 911 that the trunk and glove box have an extra tumbler/waffer so the key is longer too. The valet key does not have this and is shorter so it is not able to move the last tumbler, thus, will not open the lock.

Many/most commercial door locks have 6 pins mostly for added security when master systems are designed. Another cool thing is/are construction keys. What they do is insert a short piece of a key in the lock at the factory. The construction key/master is the other half.
When the contractor hands the keys over to the owner, the owner get's a little gadget that pulls the piece left in the lock out. Now the contractor's short key doesn't work anymore.
Gazillions of other tricks!

I know a local lock smith supply house. I'm gonna find out if they will sell small quantities of the wafers. They might do this for a good customer. I recall buying pins in quantities of about 50 but they were only a few bucks.

Tim Polzin · 10:16 AM

Here is a picture showing the difference between the valet and regular keys. The later keys just have a different head.

Both keys will fit in all tumblers, but the glove box and trunk locks are secured by a notch in one (or more, can't remember) of the pins where the narrower valet key prevents the pin from opening the tumber. Here is a picture of a pin.

The notch would be about where the arrow is.

Tim

William Miller · 10:25 AM

I recall a very short red key I saw somewhere. That may have been a very early model car.

OK, Now I think I've got it:

The locks are keyed the same. (Same combinations of tumblers/wafers in all locks.)
Except the glove box and trunk have one or more notched tumblers that the valet key won't move.

Confirm?

My lock supply place doesn't do cars. I'll look in PET to see if there are part numbers for the wafers. Who knows?

Tim, are there numbers stamped on the wafers identifying the size. I assume the dealer can cut a key by code? I also assume there is a code gauge that will measure the cuts in the key?