early 911 vs backdated SC

ishmeal · 10-11-2004, 05:32 AM

Alrighty guys, I've finally found a 911T

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2493496745&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

I'd like your opinions on pricing and condition of car (see anything unoriginal?).

Shopping indecision. Question is, how would you compare an early 72 or 73 911T vs a backdated SC or Carrerra? Handling, engines, maintenance and coolness factor?

I really value this communities opinions and your responses have been invaluable to me. TIA

Rot 911 · 10-11-2004, 05:45 AM

Appears to be a very well maintained 911! I am not a fan of the sepia brown, but assuming you can live with the color and it passes a PPI, I could see paying $10K, or even a bit more, for this car. Looks completely stock. More importantly the door pockets ($$$$$ to replace) appear in very good condition. My only question (I am not an expert on the 73 front bumpers) is what are the bars running from underneath the valance up to the rubber pads as shown in this photo:

Jim Richards · 10-11-2004, 05:54 AM

ishmeal, this looks very nice. If it looks as nice in person as it does in the pics, checks out to be sound mechanically and is free of rust (as opposed to rust provided free with the car!) and has records to back up the service history mentioned in the ad, I wouldn't balk at buying it at the Buy it Now price. I have seen similar quality early Ts selling for more $ in the past year or two.

As far comparing this to other cars backdated to look like early cars...this car will only lack some of the power that an SC or Carrera would provide. But it's a lighter car! Everything else is pretty much a wash. I would recommend you buy this car if it checks out well (PPI), enjoy it, and if you want something more powerful later on, at worst case you can sell this car for as much or more than what you paid for it.

jpnovak · 10-11-2004, 06:05 AM

The bumper guards shown are protectors for the AC condensor. They tie the bumperettes to the A-arms.

ishmeal · 10-11-2004, 06:18 AM

This car actually was listed here first. However I was cought up in another car (barn find) which wasn't as preserved or original. The gentlemen representing the car says that it's in very good condition w/o rust. I guess I'll be the judge of that when I see it on a lift.

Can you guys give me a comparison of a early P car and a backdated SC? Or, once backdated, the SC is similar to the early car? I'd do it only for aestitics.

Joeaksa · 10-11-2004, 06:27 AM

One major thing about most SC's (at least the later models) is that they have the zinc coated body parts that resist rusting much better than the earlier cars. Having owned a '72 model I love the early body style but rust got the best of the car and its now "one with the earth again" after rusting apart.

I am in the middle of backdating a '85 Carrara to the early look. Yes, it will be heavier than a early car but no rust and better in several other areas. Still love the '72 model cars and if I ever found one in good shape with no rust might end up owning it!

JoeA

ishmeal · 10-11-2004, 06:33 AM

The SC with the zinc coat treatment is a major concern of mine. If I can someone preserve or treat the older cars, maybe it won't be such a bad tradeoff. But won't they start rusting from inside out? That's what I'm a little concerned about.

Also, the SCs have the venerable 3.0 and 3.2 engines.

But the early cars, well, they're just awesome as everyone here pointed out. Just rusty and prone to it.

What about the driving experience diff?

hkspwrsche · 10-11-2004, 06:37 AM

Well,

Is your intention to end up with an RS type car with a bulletproof larger displ. engine??
Some of the guys here need to post the actual amount of weight lost on the back date. I understand it's a fair amount when you yank the bumpers and put fiberglass on. The other advantages that come to mind ...the brakes are a little better on the SC. Much easier to find a solid rust free example. The flares are already there($$expect a good size bill to pay to add them to an early car). More SC's to chose from. Already has the aluminum 3.0 engine instead of the magnesium 2.0 to 2.4 liter(priced a larger 3.0,3.2 engine used lately?). Oil lines are run to the front, so it's easy to upgrade the oil cooler.
On the other hand if you really want an original car and are going to leave it that way, then I would get one... Just my opinion....

Joeaksa · 06:45 AM

The main areas for rust on the 911 are the fuel tank surround, windshield "A" frame and the rear suspension/torsion bar. If you can find a car that has spent its life in a good place and is in good condition then thats one thing but life does not always allow this!

I lived for many years in Germany and they do a TUV inspection every 2 years. They take a pointed welding hammer and tap on the bottom of the car looking for rust. If they do not find any they still have damaged the car as the point goes through the underbody coating and if its not properly sealed again water will then get inside and it will rust. This is what doomed my '72 car.

The inspections in the states are not as invasive but still normal maintenance (body damage during an accident, jack or jack stand slipping) the zinc coating on any body can be damaged and thus allow rust to start forming.

The engines can be swapped into any car, so this is not as large an issue as the rust. An engine can be replaced but rust will doom the car if not found, cut out and replaced.

The heavier the car, the less responsive it will be. The later cars are heavier but they can be lightened. Doubt that they will ever be as light as a real early model but for me having a car that I do not worry about rust with is fairly important.

JoeA

ishmeal · 10-11-2004, 07:06 AM

You think my best be for a daily driver is to get an SC and backdate it?

Yellowbird RS · 10-11-2004, 07:14 AM

Your best for a daily drive is a 87-89 Carrera and backdate it.

Joeaksa · 10-11-2004, 07:43 AM

Harold is correct with the weigh savings. The front and rear bumpers that I yanked off of my car are VERY heavy. With all the hardware I would guess that its around 100-125 pounds and half of that is in the very rear of the car, which does wonders to the moment of the car during a corner.

Then pull the power seats and replace them with something having real lateral support (each weighs at least 40 pounds with the motors) and we are talking more savings.

Personally I love the look of the early cars but want a daily driver. This means not having to fuss with webers (knees are still sore from this!) and points type ignition. My 85 has rarely failed me but then most of the SC cars should be in the same classification as the CIS systems are very reliable if kept up.

If you can find a descent SC or Carrera for a good price, spend a few bucks for bodywork and backdate it would be my recommendation. Finding good early front fenders and turn signals is the most difficult part but they are out there.

Joe

ishmeal · 10-11-2004, 10:26 AM

Alright, here's another similarly priced 911T. It's a 72 however. Which one would you choose, being that the 72 is MFI and the 73 is CIS.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2493205144&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

ubiquity0 · 10-11-2004, 10:33 AM

I’m sure the 73.5 will go for somewhat more than $10k on ebay. Someone may ‘buy it now’.

I would go for the 72 MFI myself. The CIS injection was developed for smog compliance & low cost. The ’72 seller is hoping to get $23k.

ishmeal · 10-11-2004, 10:39 AM

$23K? Wow. I don't know if he'll get $23K. But I guess, I'll find out in a few days for sure. Now how do you know that he hopes to get $23K?

I'm watching these cars and their prices. I recently saw a 73 only bid to $7900 without reaching reserve.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2491573895&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Now, here's another which will require a lot of money to correct and running smoothly. I know he didn't get what he asked either.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2491335633&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Rot 911 · 10-11-2004, 10:40 AM

That '72 is sweet, but like ubiquity said, it will go for at least $5k -$10k more than the '73

ishmeal · 10-11-2004, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurt V
That '72 is sweet, but like ubiquity said, it will go for at least $5k -$10k more than the '73

Showing signs of newbieness here, but why would it fetch so much more? In my eyes, they're pretty much the same car, 'cept for the color and fuchs.

Rot 911 · 10-11-2004, 10:46 AM

'72 is the ultimate early 911 due to the placement of the oil filler flap on the passenger side. Only year made that way. And it has a 2.4 with MFI.

ishmeal · 10-11-2004, 10:57 AM

How much better was the MFI than the CIS? Why do some go w/carbs instead?

Rot 911 · 10-11-2004, 11:05 AM

Because most don't want to take the time and effort to do the initial tuning of the MFI. MFI produces more HP than carbs.