Fuchs, please explain the difference
 

Hi Pelicans,

I have a question regarding fuchs's. Today I was playing with the PET6 and read for example that in 1978 both cast and forged were available. I was kind of surprised. I always thought Porsche only supplied forged fuchs's. The serial numbers were 911 362 117 00, wheel cast alluminium alloy 8J 16 (available from our host for $1049,01) and 911 361 020 99 forged wheel 8J 16 (no longer available from our host price used to be $926,00, part superceded to 911 362 117 00 that's the cast wheel!). Can someone please explain because know I am really confused.


Thanks,

Gerko
1978sc

Hi to you , too.

Well, the difference is this

Isn't it comforting to know that you can get smarta$$ answers even when you don't ask a question? Unfortunately, now that you have edited your question in, I don't have an answer, smart or smarta$$.

Maybe Fuchs has stopped forging those wheels. Do they have a website you can check? If you find out, please let us know. I may be eventually going to 16s on my car, and I would like to get the forged if possible.

The difference? ... one type is cast and the other forged.

How's that for a smarta$$ answer? :cool:

Oh, and the two have completely different geometric design. ("cookie-cutter & traditional 5-spoke 911 Fuchs)

Fuchs is a manufacturer . . .they make all kinds of wheels, brakes . ..

The PET is often confusing, as are the period catalogs.
Just to be clear:
The rims we all know under the Fuchs name and that come from the factory with the same name are *all* forged.
No exceptions.
None.
Not one.
No matter what any catalog may say.
If the rim looks like a Fuchs and has a Porsche part number along with all the marks that are typical of the kind, then it is forged.

The '78 cookies were made by Ate and are cast; Fuchs 5 spokes as George said are forged, PET does not mention the mfg. only o/s and construction.

Same sort of thing for the later phone dials vs Fuchs

Boy, you guys are a bunch of hardass's when it comes to a question. Makes me wonder?

So Gerko, did ya get that? The '78 could have come with a couple of different types of wheels. The first was what we call a cookie cutter which is not a forged wheel and was made by ATE not Fuch, the second was the forged fuchs that we all know and love.

Wonder what? Nothing wrong with an absolute answer. Nothing wrong with a little teasing either. Real punk type smart asses don't last long..........

I love to see this fun loving on saturday night. Makes thinkl wait a minute I am not the only one home an saturday

Thanks for all your answers,

I had some problems with posting due to the new windows update I had installed. I know the difference between ate/cookie cutters, fuchs's, phone dials etc. What I read on PET6 for example at 911, 1978 they specifically mention those two serie numbers for the black fuchs's as two different types either wheel cast aluminium or forged. It could be ofcourse that fuchs's only made the forged one but there has been a other (probably Porsche approved, how come otherwise that it is on the PET6!) manufacturer who was making the aluminium cast. So who was that? The forged wheel is no longer available but superceded to the wheel cast alluminium alloy (according to our host). So who makes this wheel and does this mean that the not forged fuchs's really isn't inferior since it was also more expensive in it's day. Come to think of it what would have been the advantage for one or the other, weight maybe looks? By the way excuses for my english/american in all my postings, but I am not a native speaker, just a Porsche fanatic and there aren't too many overhere so that's why I am on this forum.

Come on you s....a......s.

Kind regards,

Gerko
1978sc

Hmm, weird, since part numbers for Fuchs usually have the Offset as part of the pn where the 117 is in that wheel. I wonder if the wheel in question could be a later model wheel like from a boxster or 964 or something, but then I don't think that would fit without spacers. I don't think the part number that you list is in Pet 5.5.

Hmm, after doing a little more research that number looks an awful lot like the part number of the design 90 wheels that came on the 964. I bet that's what you are seeing is some sort of weird supercession to a design 90 or something like that. If you are seeing it in PET 6 than you should see a picture if you click on the part number, does it look like a Fuch?

On my PET5, for 911 1978, all the references to the Fuchs wheels (as indicated be the number on the drawings) say forged rims.

Thanks,

Could be some sort of mistake then on PET6, when clicking on the partnumber they both relate to the same wheel. When clicking on the "Forged wheel" in PET6 it also states: forged wheel dropped, please use as replacement 911 362 117 00 wheel-cast aluminium alloy.... The funny thing is in 1978 (haven't looked at other years yet) there were more of these in different sizes. If you want I can give more serial numbers. Could it be that there was another supplier in those years for after market fuchs replicas?

Gerko
1978sc

Back when they were in production they only came forged, since this isn't in PET 5.5, what may have happened is in the last couple of years Porsche could have gotten someone to produce a cast Fuch look-alike to cash in on some of the demand that's out there, but back in '68, '78, and '88 all Fuchs that came on a Porsche were forged. If there is now a Fuch running around in a Porsche warehouse that is cast it's a recent thing not old.

K-Jetronic,

There's no need to apologize for your English. It's 1000 times better than most of our Dutch. We were just teasing you about your partial message. Hope you have your system running correctly now.

Regarding the wheels, have you talked to anyone @ our host? Maybe they have, or can get some further info. If you find out more, please let us know.

BTW, when I first got my car, about 15 yr ago, someone had replaced my rear Fuchs 15x6s w/ replica 7s. PCA would not allow the replicas for track events, so I had to find some replacements. If you are doing DE w/ your car, It might be a good to check w/ your local club (if you have one) to see what wheels they will allow.

Hi Paul,

...just kiddin'myself. Thanks for your reply, indeed the reason I am a bit worried is because I have been doing some track- time and before I go for some original 16"fuchs's , I just want to make sure (allthough they look brandnew and have new Pirelli's) that I have to change wheels. What would be the going rate for a set of 15" AEW with as good as new Pirelli's in the US or would you guys not feel good to sell them?

Gerko
1978sc

I don't know the answer to that. Maybe someone @ Wheel Enhancement or TireRack can advise you if you don't get any answers here. I know there have been some recent threads on how to identify real Fuchs by checking the inside of the rim. There was something about a triangle, a logo, and a Porsche number, but I'm not sure.

I don't think that there's any way that Porsche would stock/supply a non-forged 'Fuchs' alloy wheel.

As George (& others) have stated - all of the wheels that we generally refer to as 'Fuchs' - whatever the size or year produced - are forged.

PET has always had numerous mistakes/confusion in the parts descriptions - this is an example from PET 6 similar to that posted by K-Jetronic. It refers to the wheel options for the '86 911 3.2 Carrera:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098025066.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098025088.jpg

Andys post show one of the obvious inconsistancies that are in PET.

Trust us on this there are and never have been any cast Fuchs used as oems.


There are cast aftermarket replicas.

Anybody have the offset chart for P-cars around and can post it? Can't find the stoopid thang....

Try here

Thanks Uncle Bill...%^B

Cast & Forged
 

There was never a cast Fuch's as we know them from Porsche. There are of course the aftermarket fakes that are cast. The Fuchs in question is no longer available so Porsche superseded it with the cast (probably ATE Cookie cutter or Phonedial) which is still available as a replacement. MGH

As long as we are looking for stuff on Fuchs, I have a very vague memory of a web site that showed how fuchs were made. Showing first the billet and then the forging steps to completion. Interesting how the tiny billet became a wheel. Anyone know the url?

Jack Olsen posted the article here a while ago. It was in Excellence.

George, Thanks for the lead. The thread is here.

BTW, Mr Weatherman says that the freezing level at Mt. Hood is down to 4,000 feet and they expect a dusting of 4 to 6 inches tonight. As if that is not enough, just to get me going, my skiing buddy came up to me yesterday and asked when we were going to go. I'll know it's truly the season when Warren Miller does his intro to his Ski Movie here.

Cheers.

http://www.otto-fuchs.com/english/index.html

...we could write Mr. Otto Fuchs a nice letter and ask him if we could borrow his press for a few days... :D

Just to confirm, I think mine are fake right?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098349040.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098349060.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098349074.jpg

These are all the idents I could find, the PO restored the wheels.

Just let me know your thoughts.

Gerko
1978sc

These are fake indeed.

Just as I feared, thanks for your quick reply.

Gerko

Not that it's a bad thing, mind you. They are certainly fine for "normal" driving. I don't think I'd take them to the track though. That 1080 Lbs max load would make me nervous on high speed-2 wheels in the air turns.

Harry - folks are backcountry skiing up there right now - pic in the Orebonian.

I wonder if that forge still exists..... It's captialism, so if a sufficient market exists it WILL be filled. We just need to get over the barrier to entry here.... Who knows how much it costs to make the dies? And is there sucha thing as Rent-A-Forge -- BYO-Dies??

If it was possible it would solve the lack of R wheels for sure.

So I decided to buy some real Fuchs to replace my replica's. Indeed there are a lot of numbers on my new wheels can someone (maybe Bill?) explain what they mean and perhaps give me some more info on them? The wheels are 7j15 and 8j15.

wheel number one:
24
8j15
91136102012
as1062
0883

wheel number two:
the same as number one but with an extra +38

wheel number three:
a1
fco
1688 070 355
7j X 15
ET 23.3
911361020
as1062

wheel number four:
as number three, with extra
91136102011
as1 62 28139.2
975
19


Any info would be appreciated,

Kind regards

Gerko
1978sc

PS, this time I made sure they all were marked by the Fuchs (fox) symbol but they were also all marked with a triangle? The 8j's are white on the back/inside.

Yes, they are genuine Fuchs the 8s have a +10.6mm o/s (ET10.6 is embossed somewhere on the back), the 7s have a +23.3mm o/s

Thanks Bill,

By looking at the numbers can you tell me anything more, like maybe the manufacturing date or something?

Regards,

Gerko
1978sc

Wheel one is probably 0883: 8th week of 1983
Wheel 2 is the same (so you write)
Wheel 3 nomention from the data available
Wheel 4 is 9th week of 1975

Actually, if they are not cracked, the date has little influence. The only interesting point would be if they took a 3 prong center cap, in which case, PM me immediately :D

Hi George,

The wheels were not fitted with center caps when I bought them, all four of them seem to have the same diameter center. How do I identify if they took a 3 prong center cap? The 8j's were white on the inside is this normal?

Gerko
1978sc