Horrible sound at the track - now car won't start -

[ZCAT3]

My wife and I were at Buttonwillow today and when the track wasn't wet from rain it was a good day. Until, that is, my wife came of the track and the engine sounded like a garbage disposal. She had not noticed the sound (had her helmet on) and did not notice any loss of power during her session. I had her shut it down to take a look and there was nothing obvious. No oil leaks, holes through the case, gears on the ground, etc. So after a visual inspection, I had her try to start it back up and all the happened was the starter screamed in protest. The engine did not turn at all. I tried to turn the crank using a socket on the fan nut but the pulley just slipped on the crank pulley. As the car was running when she came off the track and then appears to have seized up after shut down I am thinking a chain came off. Any suggestions?

[MotoSook]

Sorry to hear this Bill.

Not having heard the noise in person, I would start with removing the chain box covers and take a look.

Have you drained the oil to check for debris?

[Zeke]

Suggestions? Make lots of money at your job.

If something was thrashing around in the crankcase, it most likely came to rest in a way that "froze" the motor. First, I would pull off the sump plate. That usually tells the story.

I hate to hear about these things. I've been there twice.

[ZCAT3]

I plan to drain the oil (it was time for an oil change anyway) and take a look tomorrow. I am just trying to prepare myself. The car felt great, of course, before this happened.

I did learn that running scrubbed Hoosiers in the wet is a futile effort.

[MotoSook]

Yeap...prepare yourself. Best to make your wife know it is not her fault, and she may let you upgrade.

Good luck...

[ubiquity0]

Is this your 911s?

[ZCAT3]

No - this is our track car - a 1971 911T running a 1979 SC motor with 3.2 Ps&Cs. She knows it was not her fault - although I was a bit bummed not to be able to go out for one final session. There is really not much to upgrade on this engine. It is putting out 225 RWHP in a 2150 pound car. I just want it to run. We have a few more track days before the end of the year. Is it possible the chain just came off without doing catastrophic damage.

[rcwaldo]

Since the car was running, and no loss of power noticed by your co-driver, maybe start with removing the starter and make sure the Bendix spring didnt fail, or the like.. This would make a racket back there.. FWIW

Sure hope its a simple fix!
Chris

[ZCAT3]

Chris - where is the Bendix spring in the starter? I will take a look at that as well. Would this make noise while the car was running?

[Jack Olsen]

I would also look at the starter, first. You'll be happy if you find the problem there.

[ZCAT3]

That would be great if it is just the starter - but the noise certainly sounded like it was coming from the engine.

By the way, how do I test the starter?

[lateapex911]

Did it sound like an extension ladder collapsing?

If so, it might be a chain tensioner. Ask me how I know.....

Now, if it sounded like a rock in a metal garbage can, but rythmic, its a rod bearing. Ask me how I know....

Seriously, make sure the starter isn't all jammed up. Could be that there was a short and the starter was engaging while under way, and has now jammed in. HOPEfully this is the problem. Remove it and try cranking the engine by hand.

If it still won't turn, pull all the covers and sumps you can and report back. If it does turn over, and the chains are lined up correctly and in time, you can try a compression test to see if a valve got loose....

If so, the damage is no doubt done. Lets hope for a freakish starter condition!

[beepbeep]

If it trashes around like a lot's of BB's in a can it's probably chain ramp that failed. It happened to my friend on his 930 and engine survived. Engine wasn't equipped with hydraulic tensioners though.

Let's hope it's either starter or chan ramp. The fact that engine run before comming to stop makes it look little better.

Start with looking at the starter and removing sump-plate. Proceed with chain housing if you don't find anything.

Good luck!

[ZCAT3]

Thanks guys - once the first monsoon of the season stops here in Half Moon Bay I will go take a look. The sound was not rhythmic - just bad metal crunching noise. The car does have the upgraded hydraulic tensioners.

[ZCAT3]

Well I got lucky - it was the starter. Amazing how bad that can sound.

[rcwaldo]

Hopefully your ring gear is not too badly chewed up.. Glad to hear you found an easy fix!!

Now make sure you tell the wife that it really bad and you need a 3.6L to fix it

Chris

[masraum]

Wow!!! That's awesome to hear. Your description didn't sound like a good thing. Three cheers and an offering to the Porsche god for that near miss. D@mn, you could have had that last run if you had just push started the thing.

[ZCAT3]

Yep - I was bummed missing that last session. The ring gear looked fine - it does not appear that the starter gear or ring gear got chewed up at all. The horrible noise was from inside the starter itself. I guess in transmitted from the ring gear, to the flywheel and through the crank. Luckily I happened to have a spare starter sitting in my garage.

My wife wants to campaign this car in PCA Time Trials next year, so no 3.6 for us.

[clevy70911T]

Wow. What a an emotional rollercoaster. Same thing happened to me driving back from picking up a Saab 900 Turbo I had just purchased. After a 4 hour drive I stopped for a drink about 10 miles from home and the thing started in. I could smell the starter burning, but didnt realize where it was coming from until after my heart returned to it's correct position and the car had been towed. Congrads on the good news!

[RSBob]

I love happy endings - especially inexpensive ones.