1999 Porsche 911's

[Shack2112]

Just a quick observation and question. I have been noticing that there are a lot of 1999 911's out there for cheap. Not sure that I really like the style of them but more to the point, is 1999 a problem year for the 911?

Thanks

[Christien]

I believe they had big RMS problems, and a habit of the engine grenading. If you can deal with those issues, they're a bargain! Personally, I can see picking up an 00 or 01 in the near future to strip for a track car.

edit: Hasn't Porsche (or most automakers, for that matter) had problems with the first year of every new model?

[robert walsh]

I agree with first year of a new model being problematic, the big porsche issue was the first year of the water cooled engine, very tough to swallow for old time porsche enthusiasts. I agree that for $25K it seems like a dream come true, 3.4 296HP and a porsche? I have glanced over them, as I am into the older ones, must have some real issues going on, maybe or maybe not.

[jonbot]

How much does it cost to rebuild one of those engines, and what has been going wrong with them?

[Christien]

I've heard rebuilds run $20-30K including labour - sometimes it's just cheaper to buy a new engine.

[Bart_dood]

http://www.flat6innovations.com/cylinderfailures/slides/996_34_004.JPG

http://www.lnengineering.com/986_25_cylinderfailure_001.jpg

They have numerous issues:

Rear main crankshft (to clutch housing) seal failure, due to two things, one is the seal itself which porsche updated, this seal can be fitted to older cars such as the 99's. The other is the crankshaft is not machined concentric enough, so it wears the RMS very quickly, updating the seal does not really fix this problem. Porsche techs have an insertion tool which is basically a go/no-go to assess if the crank is bad.

Slipping liners: Porsche saved money on the M96 engine by casting the high silicon content liner as a piece and then press fitting it into the main aluminum block, the problem can be if this liner comes loose for various reasons, I'm not sure of the specifics. However it drops down until it gets caught by the bottom oil ring on the piston and then pulled down with the piston assembly with great force. The engine is screwed if this happens.

Ovalization of liners: They started making these new engine blocks for the 2.5 boxster back in 96/97, when they got to 1999 and the 3.4 carrera they used the same engine casting and bored it out, inserting the liners just like before. However because the aluminum wall around the liner was thinner it began to experience stretching or movement, I believe its a combination of cold/hot cycles and pressure/stress. The inner liner being made of a high silicon aluminum cannot withstand this creep and cracks along the cylinder wall starting at the top. I have no idea how porsche has fixed this problem, perhaps they just increase the cast wall thickness on the blocks? however aftermarket companies have designed rings that press-fit on the top of the cylinders to support them and stop them ovalizing, if it is caught soon enough even cylinders out of shape can be formed back into shape. If it is not caught then eventually a chunk of the cylinder wall breaks away, called a "D" chunk.
It seems that ALL carrera 3.4 of this vintage have this problem and they all show it at between 50-70k miles. Again I don't know when/how porsche addressed this issue.

So now you see why these cars are cheaper than they should be! if you really want one, try and find one that has had a porsche replacement engine or perhaps that has had an engine teardown and had these issues fixed.

[ChrisBennet]

When they were new, rebuilt engines from Porsche were cheap (like $8-10K I think) and yo couldn't get parts to rebuild them anyway so it was a no brainer. I don't know what the story is now.
-Chris

[Bart_dood]

Oh and one more thing, some of the intermediate shafts go bad, or perhaps the bolts holding them into place, I don't know too much about this problem. It might be caused by a switch in the type of chain etc they used. Not sure tho.

[GothingNC]

Originally Posted by Bart_dood

Oh and one more thing, some of the intermediate shafts go bad, or perhaps the bolts holding them into place, I don't know too much about this problem. It might be caused by a switch in the type of chain etc they used. Not sure tho.

You mean this?


http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/water_cooled/shaft_tech

About $13,500 for a replacement until Porsche stops producing them...

[GothingNC]

Failure on the track, 2001 996

[GothingNC]

Will they able to last 200,000 miles?

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11615&st=0&p=58854&#entry58854

09 911 engine is completely redesigned without an intermediate shaft and different case.

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by Bart_dood

http://www.flat6innovations.com/cylinderfailures/slides/996_34_004.JPG

http://www.lnengineering.com/986_25_cylinderfailure_001.jpg

They have numerous issues:

Rear main crankshft (to clutch housing) seal failure, due to two things, one is the seal itself which porsche updated, this seal can be fitted to older cars such as the 99's. The other is the crankshaft is not machined concentric enough, so it wears the RMS very quickly, updating the seal does not really fix this problem. Porsche techs have an insertion tool which is basically a go/no-go to assess if the crank is bad.

Slipping liners: Porsche saved money on the M96 engine by casting the high silicon content liner as a piece and then press fitting it into the main aluminum block, the problem can be if this liner comes loose for various reasons, I'm not sure of the specifics. However it drops down until it gets caught by the bottom oil ring on the piston and then pulled down with the piston assembly with great force. The engine is screwed if this happens.

Ovalization of liners: They started making these new engine blocks for the 2.5 boxster back in 96/97, when they got to 1999 and the 3.4 carrera they used the same engine casting and bored it out, inserting the liners just like before. However because the aluminum wall around the liner was thinner it began to experience stretching or movement, I believe its a combination of cold/hot cycles and pressure/stress. The inner liner being made of a high silicon aluminum cannot withstand this creep and cracks along the cylinder wall starting at the top. I have no idea how porsche has fixed this problem, perhaps they just increase the cast wall thickness on the blocks? however aftermarket companies have designed rings that press-fit on the top of the cylinders to support them and stop them ovalizing, if it is caught soon enough even cylinders out of shape can be formed back into shape. If it is not caught then eventually a chunk of the cylinder wall breaks away, called a "D" chunk.
It seems that ALL carrera 3.4 of this vintage have this problem and they all show it at between 50-70k miles. Again I don't know when/how porsche addressed this issue.

So now you see why these cars are cheaper than they should be! if you really want one, try and find one that has had a porsche replacement engine or perhaps that has had an engine teardown and had these issues fixed.

You make it sound like they're POS... I think I'll stick to my 964 for some time...

[Shack2112]

Wow, good to know. I actually asked a Porsche shop about all these 1999's out there and asked if he knew of anything about them, his responce was, "No, and as a matter of fact I have someone that is interested in selling one".

Lets just say that I will not be going back to that shop anymore and not for just for those reasons.

Cheers

[the]

They are the worst year of an unloved series.

[450knotOffice]

Unloved series? 996's sold in higher numbers than any 911 ever built - by a long shot. The general public loves thes cars, and so do most of the owners. The people who generally give these cars a hard time are the old school air cooled only crowd.

I have a 2000 996 and have driven it for 36,000 miles in a little over two years, including many track days. It now has over 75,000 miles. Other than an alternator problem (which any car can have), it has been utterly trouble free. It is tight, solid, and rattle free. It is quick, fast, and handles incredibly well. It really is a great car and is an incredible performance bargain these days. Why? Well mostly because of the fact that so many were sold and the market is soft. This is a good thing for buyers of these cars, but not good for sellers.

Unloved by the air cooled crowd, yes, but NOT unloved. And by the way, the air cooled crowd dislikes ALL of the water cooled cars, including the 997's. They just dislike the 997's less (they are somewhat better looking).

Just so you know where I am coming from, I am an air cooled nut myself, but I also happen to love my water cooled cars too.

And don't forget...the 964 was loathed for years. People are finally realizing that that car was in fact a pretty darn good car.

Here's a link to the Renlist 996 forum - very active and FULL of 996 admirerers:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=60

[Mr.Puff]

I hated the headlights of the 996. The 997 is great.

[robert walsh]

You beat me to the point, the were produced in huge numbers resulting in poor resale, coupled with the intital year problems= even lower resale $$, combined with the very hard to swallow boxster/911 having identical parts. Don't jump on me about the 996 or boxster, great cars the both of them, I just can't tell which one is comming at me.

[GOOD HANDS]

I've had mine for 64k miles. I had a DME and vario cam actuator need replacing as well as the airbag light that stays on because of faulty factory harness problem that PNA has never taken responsibilty for. I think for the price a 99 is an amazing car. Assuming you buy one for 25k and keep 10k in the bank for a possible crate motor needed at some point it's still an awful lot of car for the money. I would certainly buy one with over 30k to 40k miles on them as it seems pretty consistent that the motors that break go early.