1987 Carrera

u268 · 11-05-2004, 10:12 PM

This is my first post. I am looking at a 1987 Porsche Carrera Coupe in Marine Blue. It is in beautiful condition and only has 89,000 km. I have been told by the owner that it has never been in an accident and has never been painted. Upon close inspection there does not appear to be any prior body damage. However, I have noticed four odd things with the paint and am wondering if these things can occur to older 911's such as this one, or does it point to some prior paint work:

1. The rain drip cap on the left side of the car has a 1/4'' crack in the paint where it joins the quarter panel. The right side is fine.

2. On the bottom edge of the front wheel well arches, the paint has "come away" in some parts revealing the grey undercoat primer, primaraily at the highest point of the wheel well arch.

3. Again on the rain drip caps, on both sides of the car, the clear coat has flaked away in some small areas. I can actually chip some of the clear coat off with my fingernail in an area where it is already coming off This was noticed under very close inspection, i.e. very little has actually come off.

4. The colour of the paint on the rear part of the engine bay, just above the bumper, where all of the stickers are seems to be slightly different than the rest of the car. I don't know if this has anything to do with the heat of the engine or that it is not exposed to the sun, or, again, possible prior paint work.

I had a PPI done at the local Porsche dealer and the inspection came out good with compression for all cylinders being between 175 and 180, however, no leak down was performed as the compression checked out:

Sorry for the long post. But this would be my first Porsche purchase and I want to make sure that I make the right decision.

Thanks.

jyl · jyl's Garage

Feel the painted surface on the underside of the wheel arches. They originally had a "pebbly" texture. If they are smooth, it suggests that fender was replaced. Replacement fenders don't have that pebbly texture; it can be added but usually won't be. This would contradict the claim of no paintwork.

Sometimes people bend the wheel arch lip so that they can run wider tires without rubbing. This is called "rolling the fender". If not rolled carefully, the paint can crack where the metal is bent. Check if the underside is roughly 90 deg with the outside of the fender, that means it is not rolled. If it is rolled, that might explain the paint problem without implying body work.

The engine bay would tend to be skipped in a respray, so good thinking to check that area for matching. Metallics look different in different lights and angles, so a tiny, barely perceptible mismatch could just be the light.

Anyway, you could consider taking the car to a good body/paint shop - somebody very familiar with Porsches. Ask them if they can tell whether the car's been repainted or had bodywork.

I'd buy a car with a very good respray, but I'd want to know why it was done and I'd pay less than for good original paint.

u268 · 11-05-2004, 10:51 PM

Thanks for your quick reply. The front wheel well arch lips turn up very quickly towards the inside of the wheel well. I appears that the inside edge is at 90 degrees on the bottom of the arches and gradually "pinches" as you approach the top of the wheel well arch. The wheel well arches do have that pebbly texture like rock guard. I is just hard to notice it at the top of the arches because they do appear to be turned in. There is that pebbly rock guard on all four wheel arches.

Do you have any comments on the clear coat flaking on the rain drip caps and the paint crack where the rain drip cap meets the rear quarter panel? Are these issues common?

Thanks again.

jyl · jyl's Garage

I don't know about the rain gutter flaking - I'm having a hard time visualizing exactly where the flaking is - but anyway usually when I've seen cars w/ failing paint it is on the roof where it gets max sun. Don't think I've seen problems at the rain gutters. I've certainly never heard of these being "common" 911 paint problems.

Quicksilver · 11-06-2004, 02:52 AM

The car doesn't sound bad but it is hard to tell by description. If it is the original paint it is still 17 years old.

Three things I would think about are:
-> CarFax. It might tell you something bad.
-> PPI. Did they measure the control points under the car? Porsche was nice enough to supply a large list of specific points on the bottom of the car and the correct measurements between them. If a car was smacked and had been put together so all the control points were in spec, then I would think it is ok.
-> Is this car really "The One". Are there any substantial modifications that you want done to the car? If so it is way cheaper to find a car that someone has already done at least part of them already. Generally modifications won't change the price of the car at all so if you want some expensive mods then you can save a huge quantity of money by having someone else lose the money for you!

Wayne

imcarthur · imcarthur's Garage

Sounds pretty minor. Body flex maybe?

Many of these cars have had areas 'cosmetically' resprayed. In fact, most of the ones I looked at had something done. Doors, hoods, front bumpers, mirrors etc.

Has the clutch been updated? Interior good? Heating system, AC, tires, seats etc etc etc . . .

If you like the price, color & condition, buy it & drive it.

It will need stuff though, so save some dollars . . .

Ian

u268 · 11-06-2004, 07:57 AM

I have driven the car and everything feels tight, the interior is in excellent condition, AC blows cold, but not really cold. The thing is, they are asking $ 24,500 for the car because of the condition and it only has 55,000 miles. To spend that kind of money it has to be pretty much perfect. Someone may have already answered this but is the small paint crack where the rain drip cap meets the rear quarter panel common - possibly due to body flex? In regards to the clutch, I do not know if it had the clutch upgrade, but it does shift smoothly, however, it is a bit "sticky" shifting between 1st and 2nd when it is cold. When it warms up it is fine. Regardless of condition of a car, should you expect to put some amount of money in to it?

Thanks again. I will try to post some pictures if I can figure out how to do it.

u268 · 11-06-2004, 09:10 AM

Here are some pictures of the car:

anthony · 11-06-2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Regardless of condition of a car, should you expect to put some amount of money in to it?

Just read some of the posts around here and you'll see quickly how you can put $3K into the car. If you can resist upgraditis then you shouldn't have to spend any extra dough if the car is well sorted. With these cars though it's always good have to a few thousand reserve just in case even if that reserve is in your mind.

If the car is original it probably could use shocks ($1000 with a full alignment/corner balance). Has the car had a full service lately ($600 or so)?

u268 · 11-06-2004, 09:29 AM

It just had a major service done, vlave adjust, oil change etc.. I have had 2 PPI's done. First one compression was 175-180, second one was 190 for all cylinders. Does this seem high? According to the second PPI there appears to have been some top end work done but both PPI's came back good. I am being extra cautious here as the price is quite high. If the paint is original I think this could be a pretty good car at that price.
Any other comments would be appreciated. I am going to decide by Monday morning.

Thanks.

creaturecat · 11-06-2004, 09:32 AM

looks like an ROW, do you know when the car was imported and from which country? nice looking car!

u268 · 11-06-2004, 09:33 AM

It was just imported by a Porsche specialty shop. I beleive that it is from Japan. Should this be a concern?

masraum · 11-06-2004, 09:48 AM

Sorry to steal your thread a bit, but does anyone know if that style of rear seat was a change for '89 or some sort of option, or added by a PO? My '88 had the regular 2 piece rear seats. I have never seen rear seats like those pictured. Just curious.

Looks like a nice car.

G50 trannies are a little notchy when cold. That's normal. I don't think an '89 would have the clutch fork shaft bearing upgrade to worry about, but it would probably have the rubber centered clutch. The tires are old. They haven't made the RE71 in a couple of years, but they were THE tire to have at one time. That is a pretty steep price, but not really that bad if the car is perfect. Too bad you don't have pics of the paint issues. From what I remember I had 1/4 cracks at the top or bottom of my rain rails. Not sure what could have caused that, but they were there. The clear coat surprises me a little, but the different color in the back does not necessarily. Colors do fade over time, but blues fade less or more slowly than reds. That's possible. You may want to either get it checked at a paint and body place or take someone who really knows 911's to look at it with you.

Good luck

creaturecat · 11-06-2004, 09:48 AM

some people feel that the ROW cars are worth less money (in spite of being better cars).The ROW cars are a dime a dozen in Vancouver - IMHO the Japanese cars have been some of the best w/r to condition, usually they are as well low mileage cars.

u268 · 11-06-2004, 10:09 AM

Sorry for my ignorence, but what do you mean by "best w/r to condition"?

masraum · 11-06-2004, 10:14 AM

they are the "best with respect to condition." I think he means the Japanese cars are in better shape than others.

anthony · 11-06-2004, 10:18 AM

w/r = with regard

The car seems priced at full retail. Personally I'd be a little sceptical of a Japanese car but that's because I'm not very familiar with imported cars. Where are you located? Do you live in an area where there is a low supply of 911s?

It sounds like you've done due dilligence with the two PPIs. I guess you just have to decide on whether you think you can find a better deal or not.

I just bought an '81 SC with 86K miles for about half the cost of this one so these G50 Carreras don't seem like great values to me. With an extra $13K in my pocket I figure I could do a lot of stuff to my SC.

u268 · 11-06-2004, 10:25 AM

masraum:

How did you fix the 1/4" paint cracks on the rain rails on your car. Or did you. I would be conerned that it could result in a rust problem. If you did repair it did you just get it " touched up? Or did you have the whole quarter panel re-painted? I may use this as a "bargaining" point.

Thanks.

creaturecat · 11-06-2004, 10:32 AM

am i missing something? If the car was just imported from Japan how did you get in touch with the previous owner? Has the car already been owned by someone local?Is the car in the USA or Canada?(assuming it was imported to N. America)

u268 · 11-06-2004, 10:33 AM

anthony:

I am looking at this car as an investment as well as an occassional driver in the summer. I am also somewhat anal, like I am sure some of you guys are about your cars as well, and want the car that I buy to be as close to perfect as possible, without paying a fortune. From what I have read, the G50's appear to hold there value quite well, tend to command a premium and are in fairly limited supply. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks.