Things to keep in mind:

surface rust can be fixed, but how do you know where the rust it?

Carrera badging is probably the PO wanting a whale tail on the car?

If the head studs fall out, this need not be the end of the story. The PO will have to have the motor re-built at some point soon. Take the cost of a reputable re-build and roll that into the cost of the car. To make the PO feel better, drop the car off and have the work started with them there. Do a search on this board for local shops or send to JW or Henry Schmidt or many of the other reputable people on the West Coast. a good re-build is probably better than 150,000 miles on the original. I'll let other chime in on this to flame me.

Fuel pumps are cheap and easy to replace. I would suggest this is a must. The SC will make noise before failure, and failure leaves you stranded.

IMHO, ditch the K&N.

Tie Rods, Wheel Bearings, these are normal maintenance things. I wonder that the PO did not pull normal maintenance?

Looks like a nice car and the prices is not bad assuming that cylinder checks out and no broken head studs. But, has someone swapped out the interior for a Carrera interior? Those look like Carrera sport seats and a Carrera center console. Not sure about the dash as I can't see the center AC vent.

So much good advice!!
 

Guys, you've all done EXACTLY what I had hoped you would do by offering all this sound (experienced) advice. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help!

With all these considerations in mind, it's now time for me to take this bull by the horns and play the role of the informed buyer. I feel that this is a good car with only small issues, but I will take extra steps to verify the condition based the suggestions I have recieved.

It would be easy for me to blindly buy a car on eBay or AutoTrader, but this one is local and I have access to a mechanic and also have all the time I need to check the car over. I'm simply taking advantage of the situation and hoping for the best. As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to search the PCA cars again to see if any new SC's are for sale. I'm in no hurry....

Mechanical issues can be repaired....rust is a different story. I'll do a "rust sweep" today or tomorrow before I ask the owner to let me have the car again for another mechanical inspection. I may as well cover the possible rust problem first since it will make or brake my purchase decision and it won't cost me anything to crawl around the car. At least that seems like the logical thing to do.

Again, I thank all of you for what has been an enlightening discussion thread.

All the best,

Aaron

Here's a pic of my current ride....broken fog lamp and all :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1100185873.jpg

I don't know. That rust looks like more than surface rust. The engine worries me. I'd tell the owner that HE should have the work done to fix the compression/leakdown. If he insists on doing it himself ask to visit when he has the valve covers off and check the studs yourself. I bet someone here can tell you how to do that. If it is an easy fix then he ought to do it. Then get another leakdown/compression done (find a porsche specialist, there are plenty of porsche specific issues that need to be looked at). If it doesn't pass with flying colors, thank the owner and run, don't walk, away. You might be able to learn more about the rust by pulling one of the two left guages and feeling around. Get someone to hose down the area for a few minutes. A leak there would likely drip on those guages (ask me how I know). If there is any water intrusion at all, you're looking at body work.

I noticed that the belt is off the AC compressor. It probably has been for a while. I bet the seals are shot, so if you want AC you'll likely have to spend money. Grady also had a good point about valve head damage. When the valve doesn't fully seat it looses it's main route for heat to conduct out of the valve to the head. An exhaust valve could get REALLY hot. I think that even if it passes comp/LD I wouldn't pay his asking price. There seems to be multiple signs of "deferred maintenance" which will all end up costing you money. For example, if this guy adjusts his own valves then replacing the alternator belt should take him about 5 minutes. Throwing the belt on the other hand will spell serious problems unless he stops immediately and deals with it. If you figure what all the maintenance bits will cost then add 50% to that for safety margin, I bet you are into the range that would get you a nicer car.

oh one last thing. Check the rear sway bar mounts for signs of tearing and to see if they have been upgraded. This is a pretty labor intensive job to fix these and will cost about $300 per side, if done by someone who knows what they are doing.

Everyone-

I've decided to walk away from this car.....there's simply too many questionable items. I'm not going to rush into anything, just wouldn't be smart after taking my time thus far.

Thanks for all the help! I'll be lurking on here to gain more knowledge prior to making my next choice.....

You guys have been great! Thanks a lot!

AaronSmileWavy

Aaron,

That sounds like a very wise decision, as the climate causing such rust problems that were visible would also most likely cause broken Dilivar studs ... which are another corrosion problem in reality!

It very well could have cost you $6 - $12K to address the engine and body issues alone ... and who knows what else may have been covered up with 'quickie' fixes???

I guess I don't understand the whole ritual of the compression and leakdown test on 911SCs.

Ok, so you do the test and find 1 cylinder has bad numbers. OK, walk away and keep looking.

So then you find another car with the same mileage except this time the numbers are good. Perhaps this is the one to buy!

But here's the problem in my view. At any point in the near future the headstuds on a 20+ SC motor could snap or at least a top end will be needed.

Sure you should buy a car in the best condition that doesn't need anywork...but I think buyers need to keep in mind that at moments notice you could be regulated to the browsing the 911 engine rebuilding forum....

So what's my point you ask? Well if I were in the market for a 78-83 911SC I'd look for one that has had a documented recent (5 years maybe) rebuild.

The idea of "rolling the cost of a rebuild in the asking price" of the car might not get you far on a $10K SC since the rebuild itself could run you $8K....

I was selling a good but not perfect 944 turbo a while back. Price on the car was $8500. Potential buyer had a prepurchase inspection done and had a body shop give an investment on paint. Between the paint and the work that should be done (according to the shop) the estimate of the repairs to make the car perfect was more than the asking price of the car. So am I to pay someone to buy my car???

I do think you can use needed repairs as a bargaining tool, but only to a certain extent.

Returning to the original poster's quest for a car, my suggestion would be to stretch out the timeline for your search. A nice SC will turn up sooner or later.

I don't understand why you say that you don't understand the "ritual" because clearly you do. You make it sound like every SC is going to end up with broken head studs. My understanding is that the problem affects a small percentage of cars. A larger percentage seem to go 200K+ miles without a tear down.

I just bought my car a few months ago with a PPI. If the engine didn't pass, it would have been worth about $4K less to me. With 86K miles on the car, I figure I could easily get 10+ years of problem free driving from this engine since I only drive it a few thousand miles a year.

Aaron,

I think it's a smart move, I took 2 years and looked at/drove 12 cars before I found mine. It's a given that even a (to your eyes and inspection) perfect car will need future work, but it's better to get one that is in great condition/shape when you buy it and you've banked a yearly amount for fixes/upgrades/maintenance.

Happy hunting.

Anthony,

I do hope you and everyone else gets 10+ years of problem free driving from their Porsches.

Like you I've heard that "a larger percentage seem to go 200K+ miles without a tear down" and that these engines are "bulletproof" but my experiences have been different. I think the bottom end on the SCs is good for 200K miles, I just don't think the studs are up for 200K miles and 20 years. Time takes a toll on cars too. My only point is that compression/leak down test is a snapshot in time to give you an idea about the condition of an engine. My advice is that if you can find an SC with a documented recent rebuild it might be worth considering.

Chuck


And to clarify I'm not suggesting that the buyer should not have passed on this car....
Plus I always recommend Targas to people interested in 911s.

I agree. I wouldn't be affraid of a car with a documented rebuild/upper end by a reputable shop.

On the other hand I don't think my studs are a ticking time bomb that are going to explode just because they are 23 years old. I am prepared mentally though if they do break. I knew that was always a possibility when I bought the car.

Chuckw951-

Just curious....Why do you recommend the targa?

IMHO, they aren't the prettiest thing to look at, but I understand how all of us like different "looks." FWIW, I like the idea of having more sun on my scalp in the summer, but what's the advantage beyond that? Enquiring minds want to know :p

To everyone:

Have called about an '86 Carrera I saw on eBay....however it looks like the seller has rather high expectations about the selling price. Car LOOKS terrific and has some very nice upgrades, but the guy isn't a Porsche dude through and through like y'all are. I'm beginning the think that I'm going to have to buy strictly from a PCA member who's been completely on the ball with his/her maintenance. I'm a bit anal....so it's a natural way to go about buying an older automobile.

Called Midwestern Auto group in Columbus, OH today to have the sales people keep an eye out for me. I'm sure they'll be able to spot cars for me...but not sure I want to pay for their bogus 10,000 point inspections that you pay out the wazoo for. Just trying to give myself options, plain and simple.

Have a good one guys.....I'm going to bed now. Time to beging the night swing at work :(

All the best,

Aaron

>>> Chuckw951- Just curious....Why do you recommend the targa? IMHO, they aren't the prettiest thing to look at, but I understand how all of us like different "looks." FWIW, I like the idea of having more sun on my scalp in the summer, but what's the advantage beyond that? Enquiring minds want to know

I'm sure there's a targa vs. coupe thread around here somewhere...but a couple of things come to mind:

real sports cars don't have hardtops
you can hear the engine
sunshine
wind
scents - with all of that extra air you can't help but smell what's going on around you. Good if you are driving along the ocean or on a back road through the country (bad in the city behind a diesel bus!)
more fun to drive - to me being in an open car feels faster
more headroom for us tall people
targas are better looking that coupes. Sexier and cooler.

All of this is subjective, to each his own... :)

What's your budget....this company always seems to have a nice inventory:

http://www.aicauto.com

Paying more on the front end will ease back end expenses.

Alright, I'm with ya.....and I'm still in the market for a coupe :D

Let me just say this. Had an E36 bimmer convertible a few years ago and didn't take advantage of the top (or lack thereof) as much as I thought I would...not gonna make the same mistake twice.

I'm a coupe guy.

Aaron