co2/c25/argon???

[TXScott]

Thought I'd start a new thread from my last....
Ok, I'm talked into the butt joint weld now...
Saw posts on using pure argon w/steel, I happen to have argon in tank. c25 better?
Pluses? Minuses?
Opinions?
What about gas and flux core in combo?
THX
Scott

[3.2 CAB]

Do not use flux core with sheilding gasses. I would not use flux core on any part of the body, too nasty of weld.

[widebody911]

Use argon/CO2 for automotive sheet metal welding; use flux core for fixing farm implements.

[lendaddy]

Sounds like you're a beginner. Stick with the C25. It is the standard and will work with recommended settings. Using straight Argon has its benefits, but it takes some fiddling with the settings (way outside recommended).

Gas/flux combo? Never heard of anyone trying it and have no idea why you would. If you have a good gas shield....you have a good gas shield.

[beepbeep]

What are you welding with? TIG uses Argon, MIG uses CO2

[RickM]

Goran, MIG works well with C02 straight...have used it for years. However, a c02/Argon mix makes for a cleaner weld with a lot less "spit". I thought Argon was not used straight on steel because it was more expensive. It is used straight for welding aluminum.....does this mean it cools the weld area better?

[beepbeep]

As far as I know, it's more or less impossible to weld aluminium with MIG. Probably not worth trying.
If welding aluminium, AC/DC TIG-welder with Argon is your best bet (you have to use AC). AC makes inpurities float to the top of the weld-pool, and Argon is just there as inert shieldning gas.

Argon is used on TIG most of the time (we welded our SS headers with TIG using Argon).

Mattias just bought a giant 350 Amp Miller AC/DC TIG with watercooled handle for less than 1000$. It's great but gigantic (it weights half a ton!!):

[RickM]

TIG is better for aluminum for sure....well for most any precise/high quality type welding. As far as I know it 's very hard to Mig Aluminum because of the poor feeding characteristics of Alum wire.....and unless it's a high end MIG controls are less than ideal.

BTW, I happened to be looking at older Miller TIGs. There are some good deals out there. I choked when I realized that common examples consume 80 Amps (or more) of current to operate.

[TXScott]

Rick,
That's what I read in a post somewhere on this board was it was cooler.
Len, not a total beginner , but just checking, I have an argon tank that I do alum. with and have gotten pretty good at for a 120v mig (Hobart 135) with no spool gun over the last eight years (it aint tig, but ya run what ya brung; to date, I've never had a joint break). I know c25 is the standard, but saw that other post and just thought I'd ask, didn't want to buy another tank if'n I didn't have to. In the past I've had good success with flux core on other issues, but want my fenders as good as I can possibly do them. I've also been told by more than a few welders, that flux core and gas make the sweetest, strongest, cleanest mig welds on earth.....yes, I agree it's double kill, but again, just asking.

Thanks again for everyones help and imput.
Scott

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by TXScott
Rick,
That's what I read in a post somewhere on this board was it was cooler.
Len, not a total beginner , but just checking, I have an argon tank that I do alum. with and have gotten pretty good at for a 120v mig (Hobart 135) with no spool gun over the last eight years (it aint tig, but ya run what ya brung; to date, I've never had a joint break). I know c25 is the standard, but saw that other post and just thought I'd ask, didn't want to buy another tank if'n I didn't have to. In the past I've had good success with flux core on other issues, but want my fenders as good as I can possibly do them. I've also been told by more than a few welders, that flux core and gas make the sweetest, strongest, cleanest mig welds on earth.....yes, I agree it's double kill, but again, just asking.

Thanks again for everyones help and imput.
Scott

Scott, I didn't mean it to degrade you. I just got that impression. Internet sucks for "tone". If you need any help I'm happy to answer questions.

BTW, we MIG aluminum everyday. You can get beautiful beads when your setup is right and you have the right equipment. I will try to post some pics tomorrow.

[TimT]

FWIW American Welding Society requires shielding gas for flux core (FCAW) welds, check D1.1

You wont get a "nasty" weld using flux core, you will get a weld you have to clean.. also reverse your polarity if using flux core, ie electrode negative.

You can use pure argon when welding steel, it is more expensive that the argon/co2 mix. What you will get is different bead charecteristic. Most likely a high ropey bead, with greater possiblity of overlap and undercut.

Since this is sheet metal and fusion will take place in one pass I wouldnt worry, you will be metal working most of the excess weld reinforcement away anyhow

[RickM]

Originally posted by TXScott
I've also been told by more than a few welders, that flux core and gas make the sweetest, strongest, cleanest mig welds on earth.....yes, I agree it's double kill, but again, just asking.

Lendaddy, What was that trade secret trick you mentioned a month or two back?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by TimT
FWIW American Welding Society requires shielding gas for flux core (FCAW) welds, check D1.1

I did not know that. FWIW I am NOT a formally trained welder. What I know I know from experience (over 15 years, 10 in production). We have never used flux core(production shop) so my knowledge there is limited to what I've been told. Apparently I was ill-informed

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by RickM
Lendaddy, What was that trade secret trick you mentioned a month or two back?

What was it regarding? The Argon on steel or the Sibronze wire?

[TimT]

Lendaddy, its just a FWIW about shielding gas with flux core.. sometimes the codes and standards lag behind the manufacturers .

AWS and NYSSCM (New York State Steel Construction Manual) require shielding gas with FCAW....The requirement give some of us a big WTF sometimes.

Lincoln is supplying us with FC wire now, and they the manufacturer, who have to qualify the product say shielding gas in not necessary....but we hve to follow the codes in my business

Ideally if I had tons of time Id tig the welds... nice control of the heat, you can rework an area without adding addition filler.

[911nut]

Originally posted by TimT
FWIW American Welding Society requires shielding gas for flux core (FCAW) welds, check D1.1

You wont get a "nasty" weld using flux core, you will get a weld you have to clean.. also reverse your polarity if using flux core, ie electrode negative.

FCAW can be used with or without gas shielding. Some cored wires do not contain material that generates shielding gas during welding and therefore require a gas shield addition.
FCAW is a high deposition, high energy process which is not suitable for welding sheet metal, unless, of course, you like ripply fenders

[TXScott]

Lendaddy,

Scott, I didn't mean it to degrade you. I just got that impression. Internet sucks for "tone".

Absolutley none taken.
Just trying to learn more, I've also been told that "once I go gas, I won't ever flux around again"!

.....But I am curious....If onewere to weld with flux and gas....how would you set the polarity???
That always baffled me
Scott

[BigD9146gt]

MIGing aluminum is great for high production stuff. A buddy of mine locally makes the hollywood movie CNC motion control rigs (Star Wars, True lies, Judge Dread), and everything on that is MIG welded. It really depends on the job. Aluminum bicycle frames are TIG'd because they don't need as much welding as say aluminum scafolding. Plus i think the thickness and how pretty you need the weld to be is a factor. Lendaddy, what kind of aluminum parts do you MIG?

Tim, i agree, being able to re-work the weld point with TIG is one huge perk.

[lendaddy]

We make air horns for big rigs. We do them in Brass and Aluminum. We have to join the bell to the stem on both. We MIG the Aluminum.

[TXScott]

Hey all,

Thought "what the hey!" I'll try the argon.
It works just fine!
Had a little burn through dialing in, but all in all it's welding very clean and cool. I'm also using anti spatter spray.
Decided to do spot welds as opposed to short runs. They are coming out very flat (most of them ).
I won't post picks as there are plenty of fender weld-ons on this board....all much prettier than mine.
Thanks Again for all the help!
Scott