Got the motor apart... ...again... and...

Leland Pate · 04-09-2002, 05:25 PM

Spent this evening disassembling parts of the motor to get a better view of what I've got going on.

First off, I removed the rocker covers.
On my #3 intake, #6 intake and #4 exhaust, I found the rocker shafts had moved a bit... causing a slight leak.
#3 intake was the worst... the shaft had moved maybe a little less than 1/2".

So, I moved them all back and torqued them down again.

I then re-torqued the head studs... none were loose.

Next I disassembled the engine mounting crossmember, carrier and crank pulley to get a better look at that nose bearing.

There is no way to tell where the leak is coming from along the seam. The main seal looked suspicious so I removed it.
Then I came up with a half assed idea of putting an air hose up to the crank case breather hose and trying to blow air into the case and see if I could spot a leak along the seam.

... no dice.
I even put a coating of motor oil along the seam to try and aid in seeing any possible leaks.

...told you it was hair brained...

So, then I moved to the back of the engine and removed the clutch and flywheel.

Cary.... you can forget mailing me that flywheel installation tool...
it definately is NOT leaking from the seal.

it is coming from the case half about two inches down from the flywheel seal.

So that is two places along my case seam that it is leaking oil.
The drip under the flywheel is much, much slower than the one around the nose bearing... but.... ARGGGGGGGGG...

I'm a little frustrated right now... just wanted to post an update.

I'll get back at it tomorrow.

davis911s · davis911s's Garage

Leland sounds like you are one busy man.

I have faith that this will all get sorted out, I know you can do it.
I like the air idea, ya mybe it didn't work but in principle good thinking.

As for those case leaks, what about that stuff your roomamte had for the aircraft, did you try that?

Just get this ready for the roundup, even if it is still leaking (like mine) you better be there.

Shawn

Doug Zielke · 04-09-2002, 05:54 PM

I can sense the frustration in your post, Lee, but I'm sure you'll get it fixed.

mark 74 carrera · mark 74 carrera's Garage

Leland,

I normally have to think about a problem for several days before I can get a way around it. Keep thinking and a solution will come. I just hope its not disassembly.

When did you get back? I have been on the board here and there but I missed your return. Hope all is well other than the _ucking leak! See Ya, Mark

cary · 04-09-2002, 06:20 PM

It's already on the way. Sorry ..........It's in the gear box shipping crate.
Don't worry about sending it back. I'll pick it up Memorial Day weekend.
If your going to proceed with the pig putty. Let me know. I could send the front seal installer too. For putting in a new crankshaft seal back in.

Rot 911 · 04-09-2002, 06:34 PM

Leland unless you are willing to split the cases again, anything you try is only going to be temporary. With that in mind I would still try using whatever military epoxy you might be able to get your hands on. I have used JB Weld on a seam leak with some success. Everything must be absolutely clean of oil. What works best is using brake cleaner in the spray can. Clean well above and below the leak. Wipe with clean rag and repeat. Then immediately get the epoxy on before the oil has a chance to seep out. Use the epoxy extending well beyond both sides of where you think you have the leak. Good luck.

pwd72s · 04-09-2002, 06:42 PM

Ahh, SHEET MON! Don't...please don't....determine the leak is between the case halves? SHEET MON! Aren't may true fixes to this..and Lee surely knows what they are. Ahhh, SHEET MON!

john walker's workshop · 04-09-2002, 07:24 PM

well the thing has to come down for the #8 bearing leak anyway. try dirko sealer this time. what did you use for sealer?
i always felt that the factory torque spec for the rocker shafts was too little. i've seen plenty of them move. now that you're experienced this should be a snap!

RoninLB · 04-09-2002, 07:37 PM

I install rocker shafts dry/oil free and the same for the hole in the housing. After the install I get a sirenge/needle type unit to shoot oil into hole. PIA, but I figure it's the best shot at leak free besides using the RS shaft seals which are not guaranteed leak free....Ron

Leland Pate · 04-09-2002, 08:31 PM

Yes, I was quite annoyed today...

... not at the car... at myself.
I just can't figure out what I did wrong!

At any rate, I had about half a dozen A/C mechanics standing over the engine and got a pretty good consenous as to what type of sealant to try to stop the leak.

The majority today said that they thought this "B-HALF" would work better than the Pig Putty because it stays slightly flexible.

Tomorrow, I'll spray it down with brake cleaner and use a wire wheel to clean up the surface real good and then have Jared come down from work with some of his "Magic glue".

It is definately worth a shot...

Failing that... it's re-rebuild time... but that will take me out of the Hill Climb, Parade, and probably prevent me from bringing my car to the roundup... which would suck.

So, we'll try this first.

...keep your fingers crossed for me.

Oh, and Cary, yes I could really use that crankshaft seal installer...

Superman · 04-09-2002, 08:37 PM

Half the time I give pretty silly advice. That's when I'm making it up. The other half of the time I sound like I know what I'm talking about. My secret is to find someone who always seems to know what they're talking about, and agree with them. Right now that's JW. I used Dirko and I'll agree this stuff is good. I'd recommend it. I'd also say that since you've done this before Leland, it'ss be a snap. If the engine is out and at least partially stripped, and if your goal is to fix the leaks, then you need to bite the bullet and split the case. It can all be over in a few days. You need no parts or machining except gaskets.

Porcupine · 10:29 PM

I would say before spliting anything take the time and call up ontool. Or any tool dealer that sells leak detection equipment.
www.ontool.com they sell a oil/water UV leak detector kit for about $60.00 from tracer products. (look in the hot tools section)
Read follow and understand the directions with the kit and pinpoint exactly where the leak is.
Think of it as playing with a dud B-61.
Martin

Zendalar · 04-09-2002, 11:26 PM

Leland, youre scaring me. I am about to torque head/cylinder nuts today and your "accident" got me thinking if I had done something wrong. I put little extra "goo" on the nose bearing/case halve split point, hopefully it is enough.

cary · 04-10-2002, 04:09 AM

E-Mail me your address..........I left it at the shipping place yesterday.

earlycar · 04-10-2002, 05:24 AM

Leyland, I have been chasing oil leaks for the last two years. Got most of them except for the infamous #8 bearing leak. I was about to split the case and rebuild the engine when a freind(mechanic) suggested dow corning 730. It sure seems to work, it is very important to completly clean the area to be repaired and to wipe down with acetone to remove all oils etc. Dow corning 730 cost about seventy bucks but sure seems to work. If you can't find it locally try mscdirect.com and do a search for it. I can't swear as to the longevity of the fix since I have only just done it but having tried dirko and everything else this sure seems to be the answer. good luck.

yelcab1 · 04-10-2002, 06:44 AM

When I did my engine rebuild, I did not have a torque wrench small enough to fit into the holes to properly torque down the rockershafts, so I just made my best guess effort by feel. Well, they leaked. So I open it back up, and tightened them some more with allen key, as well as the custom allen socket I made for my 1/4 ratchet. I just tightened them until I felt that it is enough for a little bolt like that, and stopped. Yes, it was unscientific, but the thing stopped leaking.

JW, where can I get some Dirko? I may need some soon.

Leland Pate · 04-10-2002, 07:04 AM

Porcupine, that leak detector equipment would only work if I still had the motor in the car.

Zendalar, I'm not sure what could have caused this... perhaps there were a few minor burrs on the sealing surfaces that I didn't think were a problem? I didn't actually use a rooler to apply the Loctite 574, I just put a bead around the case half and spread it evenly with my finger.

RoninLB, I did install the RSR o-rings on the rocker shafts...
But it is probably as JW and others suggest... that the factory torque specs aren't enough...esp. with older engines.

Earlycar, I thought Dow Corning 730 is used as a replacement for Loctite 574. Meaning that it is used between sealing surfaces.. not as a patch... Isn't DC 730, what Bruce Anderson suggests for the case halfs?

Superman, I cannot bear the thought of missing all of this summers driving to tear the motor down again.
No, it could not be done quickly... with college classes, leave, money, and work, it is just not possible.

I have to try this first.

earlycar · 04-10-2002, 01:56 PM

Leyland, you are right that Bruce Anderson uses DW730 for case halves. I used it as an exterior caulk to seal oil leaks and so far it has worked. When I used dirko I could only get the fix to last about fifteen minuites or until the oil got hot and thin. Just got back from another spirited drive and still no leaks. Remember if you decide to use this product you must do the final clean with acetone. I think brake clean leaves a residue or somthing that affects the bond. Again good luck

cary · 05:49 PM

Lee, seal installer is on the way. Snail mail, padded envelope.

It's going to work. I want some one else ( won't mention any names ) to be slower than me .............

at Bogus.

You'll be sounding and lookin cool. I'll just be lookin cool.

RoninLB · 04-10-2002, 07:38 PM

Leland....if you need serious caulking for an external patch do a marine quality caulking...I use "Caulk-Tex"...comes with a catalyst..It's so stiff and flexible you could play golf with a ball of this stuff..It is sold by marine supply dealers..or you could call them/mfg..Travaco Laboratores, Inc. 345 Eastern Ave.,Chelsea, Mass...02150. It's used in wood plank construction or repair. The can reads "unaffected by freezing or blistering hot temperatures". Marine-Tex is the hard/non-flex stuff which I've used to repair internal pump flutes... Ron