You got taken advantage of. Yes. However for some to say we need a negative feedback forum to identify people who do this is suspect. He gave you money, you gave him parts. He did not rip you off. He took advantage of you. I sell stuff on this board for what I consider below market value because I hope it is going to a fellow enthusiast. If they turn around and sell, oh well. A negative feedaback forum would be for falsly advertiseing condition or taking money and not sending parts. Not for saying someone took advantage of you when you know what your parts are worth.

You tried to do a good thing, as would a lot of us, and I commend you for that. I think the majority of people here in the same situation may have done the exact same thing you did, I know I probably would have.
After seeing the ebay add, I would just think, what an a$$, no more favours for you. Your post has also proably made sure that he will no longer get any favours, which IMHO, is a good thing for this guy.

Jeff

fraud n. - deliberate trickery intended to gain an advantage

I didn't think knuckleheads with the "money talks, bull***** walks" mentality could drive Porsches.??

I am sorry this happened to you, it is quite bogus that someone posed as a fellow enthusiast for the sole reason of chewing you down on the price. That said, please do not let this make you bitter towards your fellow Pelicans, I am sure this turkey is the exception rather than the rule. Kurt, I am looking foward to meeting you as a fellow Long Island Porsche nut. I bought my Carrera in large part because of guys like you and the rest of this helpful, generous board.

ChrisBennet hit the nail on the head. FRAUD
This guy used deceit to gain monetary advantage at the expense of all on this board who go overboard to be helpful and usually more than fair, for the sake of the hobby/disease.
He will reap what he sows.

Pr!ck. Said he was going to use them for his own car and he didn't. He lied. Not illegal, just unethical. I don't think he is representative of this community. The vast majority of those on this board are honourable and I feel lucky to have discovered Pelican.

Kurt, unfortunatley there are plenty of s..mbags in this world, that trickle into the Porsche world.

I know how you feel., being played by some jerk, it's happened to me, but this is life.

Don't let it get you down, because as you know there are some really fine people here on the BBS and out in the world involved in our "sport".

Do as I do.......take it on the chin and keep an eye out for this guy.

He will get his one day.......for sure.

Best regards, Mike

PS: I will get over to Triple G one day!

Boomvang, then you too will be invited to my porsche meet planned for next spring. I always look foward to meeting other enthusiests.

And as far as my feelings for Scylla6 ? I dont hate the guy . Im just disappointed that his interests are business only. Maybe there is a logical explaination to his conduct . I guess we will find out once he logs on. I feel a little guilty now because this post has grown quite large in only one day. If you guys can hold back, lets wait till he signs on and defends himself before any further slander takes place. I should also note that he is a gun collector and I dont need any extra holes .http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/ar15.gif

Kurt Williams

Ronin

If you have anything else free, that would go with my 69T, think of me.

(wow, that is almost pure poetry)

:D

Jim

This matter could have merit civilly.

Those who have stated fraud are on the right track.

More akin to obtaining property through False Pretenses.

Main Entry: false pre·tens·es
Pronunciation: -'pre-"ten-s&z, -pri-'ten-
Function: noun plural
: false representations concerning past or present facts that are made with the intent to defraud another; also : the crime of obtaining title to another's property by false pretenses —compare larceny by trick at LARCENY, THEFT.


Misrepresented the facts intentionally in order to obtain the item at a lower cost than he could obtain them using the truth.

You should at least be entitled to half of the difference between your selling price and his.

Jim

I totally agree with copper.

wheeler dealers
 

I just hate it when people want to deal. When buying something, if I don't like the price, I walk away. When selling, I price things a fair value and thats it. There seems to me to be something patently deceitful about the whole bargaining process.

Well said.


On the flip side here, I've bought stuff many times just because it was a really good deal. Does that make me a bad person? I can easily go to a few local swap meets every year and make a few hundred at each one because sellers often underprice parts. Usually though I don't resell the parts, I just keep them as spares.

No anthony it does not make you a bad person . Business deals are based on profit .

Kurt Williams

i had a customer/friend once who talked me out of my slightly used set of 2.7 euro P+Cs, supposedly for his own car. found out later he sold them to someone else for double what he paid me. we don't associate anymore.

Kurt,

I am a gun collector and I have never shot anyone. I am also an honest person and I do not take advantage of others. I do not expect that the guy who took advantage of you will ever sign on to defend himself, because if he really needed to sell the tires because his sick mother needs an operation, it is more likely that he would have enlisted your aid in a truly desperate cause, rather than post them on EBay immediately afterwards. If it had been me, I would have done exactly what you have donep; never deal with him again (his loss), and warn other people. If he contacts you with a great excuse, you can always rectify the situation, particularly on a public board like this. As for the present, I would want to know who he is so I can protect myself accordingly, and I thank you for that.

They don't call it the school of hard knocks because it feels good, but at least we learn from our lumps.

Kurt,

For whatever its worth, I think you got ripped. However, I hope it doesn't sour you on helping out your fellow Pelicanites. I have bought several things from you through Ebay (all very accurately described), and part of the reason I felt confident buying the bits was I knew your were a Pelicanite.

As you probably realize, you were not legally scammed but the guy was obviously a jerk. I often do things for Porsche people that I wouldn’t do for just anyone walking in off the street, I think we are all pretty much like that. It’s a shame and I would be pissed too. I purchased a pair of (supposedly good condition, recovered seats) for my 996 off of eBay in August from a guy named Eli Sesma, whom I believe was also a member of this board. The seats looked good but all the electrical gear was trashed, and to fix everything would cost more than the seats were worth. I paid $900.00 for them. Several unanswered emails made it clear that it was going to be my misfortune and he obviously wasn’t concerned about anything more than getting them out of his garage and putting my money into his pocket. I won’t forget it and I believe that he will get some of the same, all in good time.

Sounds somewhat unethical, but not illegal to me. You guys would be surprised how many dishonest people there are in this world. Try running a parts business like mine, and you have to deflect all of the buttheads that will try anything to get one over on you.

-Wayne

Kurt, I feel bad you got hosed. We seem to have a handful of wheel flippers on this board. It would be nice if they were boycotted, but then how many of our fellow Pelicans would actually see this through. Not as many as it would take to put the flippers out of business, I'm afraid. At least I can try to do right by others here like you do.

The guy who did this is living a fraudulent life and he will be repaid in kind - with a life based upon falsehoods. You are not - and will be repaid in kind - in the long run we get the life we choose. Don't second guess the decision you made before you were aware it was based upon fraudulent information. You made the right choice, an admirable choice then, and you've made the right choice now. It's not your problem. It's his. Especially now that everyone knows about it. I've followed your posts and threads here for awhile now and learned a lot - even from this one.

OTOH, Scylla is a nymph in Greek mythology who used falsehoods to draw sailors to their death in a whirlpool .... I guess we should have known.

Kurt

Feel very sorry for this type of people.One day they'll get theirs

Some Guys will take advantage of any situation to make an extra buck. Down here a friend and I are restoring a 1982 911 Targa SC. . We found a friend that had four fush's.., two for the front and two for the rear w/Eagle tires like new for only $700.00 for the four.

Thaths the kind of consideration we have with each other..!

Vic

Kurt,
Hard to understand why bad things always happens to good people :confused: Any way i think Wayne should make it a sticky in parts section stating " Be cautious in your dealings with scylla,the flipper man "
Btw i am a firm believer of " What goes around comes around " and if i was you my blood would be boiling too but some times we all have to suck up things in life that we don't want to,o well .
Forgot to mention,it was nice talking to you & i will keep you posted about the other issue.

Illegal? no. Unethical? yes. Even though you say that the money isn't the issue, it really wouldn't be even mentioned if you sold the tires for what he's gotten for them. The issue here is that scylla beat you up on the price and then made a profit. They do it at the auto sales lot and Stock Market every day. The fact that he played you with being a Pelican is low but not surprising. Final thought: Galatians 6:7 says "Don’t be misled: No one makes a fool of God. What a person plants, he will harvest. The person who plants selfishness, ignoring the needs of others—ignoring God!—harvests a crop of weeds. All he’ll have to show for his life is weeds!" (The Message Bible) We say "goes around, comes around"

Why feel bad? You are the better man. Integrity is it's own reward. Feel proud.

If you want to change the world, take the amount of the price difference and send it to a Tsunami relief effort. Then post it here. Maybe he will read about it and do the same.

Welcome to the wild and wooly world of free market capitalism.

Kurt,

The golden rule was not being followed by this buyer, that is for sure. Hopefully the resulting karmic energy will send this jacka__ a message.

I'm with you, people who are enthusiasts get "a break". I just had a new, unknown to me pelicanite over last weekend, I loaned him about $500 in special 911 engine building tools. No deposit or other legal wrangling. Unlike the wheel flipper, he was a nice guy and I don't have the slightest worry that my tools won't come back home after he finishes his engine job. I know that there are (fill in expletive of your choice) people out there, and I do look for them in my dealings. But I also to give the benefit of the doubt first.

You can sleep easy knowing that your heart is pure. And he will likely get his in the end.

Cheers,

Chris

P.S. Since sushineav suggested making a Tsunami donation, may I suggest http://www.mercycorp.org? My children are doing a fundraiser for them right now http://OperationChildren.hope4peace.com

I'm sorry, Wayne! I was in Taiwan when the package arrived -- honest, and roommate never saw it. Came home two weeks later and no package. UPS covered up to $100, but PP covered the rest.

Anyway, this business with the wheels; I agree it's unethical, but not illegal.

I've committed his screenname to long term memory and will never do business with him. Maybe I'll check his profile for his real name.

Yes I would be upset too,
Can you send me some more info on those great rims you have on the White 911/turbo
Thanks
Derek

Kurt:
Just take solice in the fact that this person is a wretched, pathetic little guy who has to either build up his little ego by doing deals like this or whose life is on such a low productive level he actually needs the $200.

Kurt, don't get all work up over it. The additional stress you don't need. I have been screw many many times trying to be a nice guy. Just look at it this way, You have a few bucks and you just want to lend a helping hand. Don't let this change you. We have to continue to believe that there are still many good prople out there.

Jeff

whattajerk!....
 

Kurt,

I guess this is a case of "First time shame on him, second time shame on You!" Anyway thanks for posting this "issue" on the BB. At least now other Pelicanites will know to watch out for this jerk. He will probably change his login name and work under another alias. Maybe someone will scam him on Ebay and help to adjust the "univerisal kharma". In fact, maybe the other BB members could set up a "sting" on the guy to make him realize that he is not welcome here! Just a thought.

Fred Cook
'80 911SC coupe

Tom Dance?

Kurt...good news travels fast, bad news even faster. I'm sorry you had a nasty experience, as you know, I'm relatively new to this stuff, I must say I've been luck to date but I cringe at the prospect of having it eventually happen to me. Even though it costs me $$, I insist on having a few telephone conversations with whomever responds to my posts, I let my intuition take over from there. No doubt I'll have a nasty experience if I keep buying and selling electronically...now thanks to you, I know of someone that I will avoid. Good luck, keep your spirits up and flip the page...

Fred C.

Kurt, you said he came over to your house right? Search the area he was in looking for trace evidence such as hair fibers. Gather a few up and make a little voodoo doll and stick a pin in it everyday. Maybe twist his head around like the exorcist or something. Ha ha ha

I am a firm believer in "what comes around goes around"

I have found the members of this board extremely sociable and honest. I am proud to be a member and would happily do business with the majority. A little over a year ago, my trusty 83SC was a no-start. I posted on this board and SammyG came over the day after Thanksgiving with a toolbox and fixed my car. He accepted no money and would not even let me buy him breakfast. His reply was, "that's just what we do for each other." That is the spirit of this board.

David

I'm in the "Free Market" crowd. It sounds like you've never negotiating anything in Chinatown, have you??? He did nothing more dishonest then playing "hardball".

First off -- the guy sounds like a jerk. No disagreement there. Did he do anything wrong? No. Did he do anything fraudulent? No -- When a buyer says what their intentions are for the item being sold during a negotiation -- it has no bearing on the deal. They are strictly intentions and it's fully within the buyers rights to change his mind after he has paid the full amount.

Personally, I enjoy doing a win-win deal with fellow Pelican heads or racers. But as soon as I get of whiff of something like this buyers "hard ball" negotiating tactics -- the gloves come off. If I don't like the way the guy is dealing with me, I have no qualms about walking away and say "If you think that these wheels are worth only $350, you're welcome to buy them somewhere else for that price..." and let it go at that.

At this point, the last thing that I'd let this guy do to to cause you to waste more days being angry about it. Life it too short to waste a lot of time being pi$$ed off. Chaulk it up to experience and move on.

PS: Personally I've spent most of my life being a poor negotiator. I was lucky enough to take some classes during my MBA on Negotiations as well as Gaming Theory (which is the empirical study of negotiations"). A good rule of thumb to keep in mind (backed up by studies) is that more then half of the negotiations wind up at the half-way point between the opening positions of the two parties. If you don't feel that you're there, don't take the deal.

Buying cheap and flipping for a profit is standard fare for swap-meets, etc. No big deal.

The part that stings is the buyer took advantage of the pelican brotherhood angle to get his deal. Not cool.

Let me help you feel better about your situation.

About three years ago I cleaned out my garage due to impending unemployment. I took a truckload of old 911 stuff to a local swapmeet. In this "stuff" was a set of deep 6x15s. I sold them to "a fellow enthusiast" who looked like he could use a break for $100. FOR THE PAIR. Later on that day the guy was run off by the organizer because he was a competitor in the used parts business.

Pissed? You bet. Now I only give good deals to folks I am at least aquainted with.

John, I think you missed the part about the buyer lying to Kurt about needing them for his own car/restoration.


-Chris

Take a pic of some fuchs and put them up on ebay. Price them cheap.When he comes to buy or makes an offer to end your auction early and he will,report him to ebay for trying to buy them "away" from the auction. Then Kill the Auction.

Mike