Whats up with this ?? Please read ,
 

About 2 months ago a member of this board emailed me and asked if I had any deep 6 (15x6) fuchs available . I answered yes and gave him my phone # . I was feeling good about meeting a fellow member and gave him my address and a time to come down. He beat me up on my price hard . I wanted no less than $250 each and he said over and over that they are not worth that much and could only give me $350.00 for a pair . After dealing with his dry personality and him telling me he needs them for his early S restoration I gave in at his final offer of $375.00 . He paid and left . He offered no friendly conversation nor was he the least bit interested in my cars or projects. I was kinda let down by this but no big deal . Anyways 3 days ago I was going through the ebay listings and noticed my exact wheels this guy purchased up for sale and starting at $550.00 ! Not worth that much he says. I sent him an email as follows

"Dear scylla6,

After beating me up on the price on these wheels I gave in because your a local porsche enthusiest like myself. You said they were for you. I guess I read you wrong . Like I said I could have been paid much more if I listed them on ebay myself. I thought I was doing the right thing. And your the guy on pelican warning the masses about other sellers. Go figure. Kurt "


Of course there was no responce to my email . Here is a link to the auction where he got $660.00 .

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4515185417&ssPage Name=STRK:MEWA:IT

Should I be pissed off ? I just hate being played .

Kurt Williams

And yes I am 100% positive that those are the wheels he purchased from me. I recognize the nicks on the spokes exactly . Notice his description does not mention them either. Just a real class act .

Kurt Williams

I am somewhat selective about what I buy and usually ask (especially a local enthusiast, or even more, a Pelican) that if it turns out I don't use the item, should I offer it back for the same money or is it OK to go ahead and sell it to another. Then, I will ususally offer to split any profit less expenses. That hasn't happned as of yet.

Unfortuanately, this is NOT how the world works and is a substantial source of my scorn and acerbic personallity, which appears here frequently.

You've been had, my friend. Welcome to the club.

That's just plain nasty.

So do you think posting this info for all to see is in good character ? Im not that kind of person and often keep my bad experiences to myself. Im just so pissed off that he didnt even respond to me with a bullsiht excuse . At least that I could have tried to believe and felt better . I realize now his ebay name is the same as his pelican name . I dont want to cause any problems for him since there is a very slim chance there is a reasonable explaination like a terminal sickness or something. Should I leave this post ?

Kurt Williams

Nobody likes being "played" and there is no reason why you should. It sucks no doubt. You gave this guy a "good deal" and he took advantage of you. Maybe in the future you should reserve your "good deals" to your close buddies where you can sure sure of their intentions.
It's been my experience that most true enthusiasts know what an item is worth and are willing to pay a fair price for it. Everyone loves a good deal but a "good deal" is NOT beating someone up on a price.

I see he sold another similar pair of "deep sixes"for $710 back in November. Also bought a single 15x6 in December for $97. Hmmmm.... I wonder how his resto is coming along.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Unfortunately there are some people in this world that will take any advantage of people like yourself with a good soul. Try to think of it like this. That guy is probably a miserable selfish sob inside and leds an empty life trying to take advantage of everyone he meets. Your better than that. His parents made him feel insignificant and unloved as a kid and he has a deep empty hole inside that will never be filled.

I must say, of all the instances of irregularities we've heard of in the last months, this one takes the cookie in terms of sheer impudence. There better be a terminal illness somewhere, I see no other reasonable explanation.

Sounds like he was irritating and possibly less than honest, but I think that sort of thing these days must be assumed until otherwise proven wrong. funny, even as a seller these days you have to wonder.

But, I think the important thing is when doing this sort of thing to decide what you want and get it. Once you've got the cash you should be done. You tried to do a nice thing and it didn't work out the way you had hoped. Kharma (sp) will repay you both.

Wow, that was some discount.

How's that saying go? "poopy happens"

I'd be pretty irritated, but mostly at myself for letting them go so cheap to someone who seemed obnoxious in the first place.

Yes, you were had.Who?

Selling them for $375.00 was not what bothered me . I dont need the money . Its the sale on ebay thats got me pissed . Ive given parts away(free) so many times to members of this board and received proper thanks which was enough for me . I figured since they were going on his own car and maybe money was tight for him .... I look foward to his defence once he logs onto the board .

Kurt Williams

Very low class. You should not feel bad for posting this. Although no crime was committed, I have seen other "wanted" posts from this character. Now, people will know what he's up to.

Yes I to would be very upset. Never protect the guilty. Always show the world who they are so we can protect ourselves. But always remember people like this are the minority. I too am a nice guy and do favors. But there are more good people in the world than bad.
Sorry about your misfortune.

This is why I don't trust ANYBODY anymore. This is how kindness is typically repaid.

I think that kinda sucks.

Doing a search on his username here shows that 99% of his posts are in the parts and cars for sale sections. So it seems he's here mainly to deal in parts.

I've only sold a few parts on this site, but I've been surprised by the flakiness of a lot of people here. Nothing criminal or major, just general flakiness.

As far as trust - yeah, I'm very wary, too. But there are a LOT of guys here (I could make a long list) that I would trust 100%. For ex., I recently did a deal with Thom (widebody911) and I never had a second of doubt or concern sending him money, or regarding his representations about the parts. There are many, many others here that I would have the same confidence in.

With respect to all of the above, I'd hope that this experience doesn't define your views of the people around you, especially in this community. As an enthusiast (and one in your area), I'd hope that you simply exercise greater caution in the future, rather than assuming that everyone is out to make a buck at your expense.

If someone strikes you as being a dick, don't do business with them. There are still a lot of guys around who would like to bull$hit about cars and projects, even without your giving them parts or discounts.

Keep the faith.

If there was some underlying reason why he didn't need the wheels anymore and decided to turn them over, He should have contacted you first. Of course he didn't have to do that but as a human being that would have been the decent thing to do.

Some people only care about themselves and go along in life just doing whatever makes them feel good. Sort of today's "do whatever, if it makes you feel good" mentality.

Your a good guy Kurt, I would be upset too.

Sorry to hear you got burned for trying to be nice. You were reading his personality correctly as you dealt with this individual. Next time listen to what you hear (from yourself) and stand firm on a fair price. Twenty-twenty hindsight and all that, I realize, but a lesson learned. Into every rain a little life must fall (I know, I like my version better).

I'm gonna post someting unpopular here, but here goes.
I've always felt that it's bad business and bad personally to buy or sell anything from a friend. If you sell a friend a car, you'll probably be inclined to sell it for less than it's worth, and then if something unexpected should happen to the car after the transaction, your friend may feel that you knew about the problem and stuck him with a lemon.

Now in this case, you were in effect dealing with the fellow pelicanite as a "friend" of sort, and thus selling your wheels at a sort of discount in anticipation that he'd be appreciative, and in a spirit of the pelicanite community. However, as you describe the transation, the guy did not act friendly at all during negotiations... That should have been a tip off that things were not as you assumed.

Once you agreed to sell the wheels at an agreed upon price, the wheels became his. Period. And he is free to do with them as he wishes without permission or approval from the PO.

In the future, don't settle for a price that you're not willing to feel comfortable with, and once the items(s) are gone, forget they ever existed. And finally, never mix business with friendship... even implied friendship.

All that said, the buyer is not the kind of guy, I'd like to hang with...

Always et al: AMEN...
It doesn't take more than one to "sour" you, let it go, as I try to say....next....

Ther has been plenty of this type of crap on some members of this BBS.you have the knee jerk reaction on bothsideds of the story.My 2cents worth is found in luke 6:31 "And just as you want people to treat you treat them the same way." Do I always do this? well no I get mad and fall short. but I try to do better next time. I want to see the good in all my pelican buddys would I buy agian from them why Yes!

It's been said that no good deed goes unpunished. This is a sad story, one that should be chalked up to experience. But hey, don't let this keep you from continuing with good deeds. I try to trust everybody at face value. But screw me over, and I'll remember it a LONG time. An example...some years ago, a former school mate came to me, wanted me to loan him some $ for a biz idea. The idea sounded good, but I said no. Why? Decades before I'd loaned him money for a school cafeteria punch ticket. He never paid me back.

This is the exact reason I requested an "Official Negative feedback" thread to accompany the "Official Positive feedback" thread...

Guy's like this need a kick in the A$$.

Jim

Thanks for posting Kurt. Is there anyone who isn't learning from their mistakes on a daily basis? I hope not. Growth hurts. The truth is as far as I can see, that is a crappy way to go through life, beating people for a couple of hundred bucks all day long every day. Sounds like a sure path to misery to me.

This happens all the time. Sad, but true. I have long believed that helping a true enthusiast out is the right thing to do. Don't compromise your values for the few jerks out there who take advantage of " a handshake deal". Anybody can sell parts on ebay....but part of the enjoyment of these early Porsches is the brotherhood associated with the cars/parts, willingness to educate and assist other club members and the lifelong relationships that can result during the process.

I don't know, just seems like business to me. No offense, Kurt, but if you weren't happy with $375 then you shouldn't have sold them for that. And after that transaction is done, the guy is free to do what he wants with them. I guess I don't understand the strings attached to some transactions. You sold them because you no longer had a need for them, and when you sell them you don't own them anymore. But you still want to control what happens to them. They belong to him now and he can throw them in the river if he wants.

On the other hand I agree that the buyer has acted less than honorably. I wouldn't want to do business with a guy like that.

But the bottom line is that any parts are just a commodity. They have a certain market value. If you believe they're worth more then hold out for it. If you sell them for less then live with it.

In all my dealings with Kurt he has always been upfront, fair, and very knowledgable. There will always be people out there looking to exploit a situation, but Kurt is passionate about the hobby that we've all involved ourselves into and the enthusiasts that he interacts with.

some people suck!
Sorry Kurt,

Nikita

Kurt, you are one of the good guys here. I hate hearing about stuff like this. Im surprised though. Ive sold fuchs to the same guy before without any issues.

I sold scylla6 a set of four flat 15x6 with yokohoma tires for $600 about a month ago. I wonder if they will show up on ebay. He didnt beat me up on the price and I honestly didnt think $600 was a steal for the wheels/tires. he paid very promptly and was nice over the phone as well. He is an Early S member, so I figured he was doing a restoration, not flipping parts. He didnt say what he was going to do with them and I didnt ask.

Ive bought and later re-sold some parts for a profit here before. Ive lost a lot more money than Ive made selling parts, and Ive never bought something with the intention of flipping it here for a profit. I dont do this for a living and I dont have the time for all that stuff. If someone else does, good for them. If I cant use it, it gets sold for whatever I need at the time.

I dont have a problem with a guy making a buck, but I dont sell anything to people who try to beat me up on an asking price for something that I know they are going to flip. Theyve got to be more creative than that if they want my money.

It may be just business to the buyer. But it's dirty and unethical.
Obviously, knew he couldn't do "business" if he told Kurt what his real plans were, so he made up the story about needing them for his own restoration.

Plain old dirty. I think Kurt has every right to be upset. AND it affects all of us, as the next guy who really is doing a resto and is light in the pocket from all the work, might not get as good a deal from a once screwed seller...

Jim

Wavey, like I said above . It wasnt the $ amount that got me upset . I too sell parts on ebay . I knew their value . I just wanted to help the guy out . I knew I was taking a loss at $375.00 but I was willing to do so for the right reasons .

Kurt Williams

This is essentially what I was trying to say earlier, but Wavey said it more eloquently than I. I couldn't agree more.
It seems that the vast majority of people registered on the Pelican board are honorable and decent people, but it's naive to assume or expect that all members will fit this description.

It's always ok to buy low-sell high, but hopefully there is a certain karmic attachment to how you go about it. It's not just about cars and parts. Absolutely nothing wrong with this transaction, on a purely business only level, but on a personal level it sucked big time. What goes around comes around. OK, I'll put down the pipe now.

sorry kurt, your kindness was taken advantage of. and that is just plain wrong. people suck, welcome to my world.

Guys try not to forget we are a sort of brotherhood here. We should have Kurt's back on this end of story. I make a decent living and I would swallow a few bucks for a friend of sorts. I like to keep my most prized possessions in the family, per say. And its not a car for thousands of dollars its a few bucks for wheels. I personally would be livid. Its not cool. And if we would say its OK. I think we are acting a bit cold.

No one is saying the guy doesn't have the right to turn around and sell them for a profit.

But it is slime to lie and tell a fellow enthusiast here on Pelican that you need the parts for your restoration in order to grind down the lowest price, then immediately turn and sell them.

Legally, technically wrong? No. Slimey? Definately.

this sort of thing really burns me up, it betrays the brotherhood that we all share and is just plain shameful.

I've gotten so many great, amazing at times, deals from fellow board members that it's really our responsibility to pass along the love when we can.

Kurt, remember the two perfect '71 doors I wanted $400 each for, I just sold them in a package deal for $500 for both, cause the purchaser has helped with G9Girl. And we've all given stuff away for free just because someone needs it.

This is one of the greatest communities I've belonged to and when scavengers come in and take advantage of what we've (and Wayne... thanks!) built, it cuts to the core.

I hate flippers! Can you believe I actually got several offers of $800 to $1000 for a set of 8x9x15 Fuchs recently! :rolleyes:

My $.02.

Kurt,

I would feel bad as well. Guy sounds like a jerkoff and needs a visit from Guido some night. The Porsche community is a small one and it will come back and haunt him sometime but we just do not need crap like this...

JoeA

To those poster's who said "business is business". I agree BUT the buyer lied about his intentions, to take advantage of a fellow board member. He even played on the fact that he is a fellow Pelicanite.

On occasion will sell at a loss, or give away a bike to someone who otherwise might not have the chance to get involved in cycling. I certainly would stop that practice if I saw one of the bikes on ebay within weeks of trying to help someone out.

There is a difference between a "business deal" and trying to help someone out. Even though Kurt receive a payment, his intention was to sell below the actual worth because of the story he was given by the buyer. Kurt was trying to help a Porsche guy finish a project.

I kinda got taken advantage of. It was my own fault. I offered something for free to a routine member that I could have gotten a $100+ for. I figured a pelican friend would need it. I sent it to someone else who jumped on it, a voyeur.