Where to race early 911?

[BK911]

Say you have a 1973.5 911 coupe and you’re on a limited budget. What engine would you put in the car and where would you race the car? I’ve done some research and I am steering towards a 2.4E in PCA stock or SCCA IT. Both of these classes appear to be relatively $ friendly, especially compared with GT. Anybody have experience in either of these classes? Or any other classes for an early 911?

How competitive are the 911’s in IT?
Do you think a prepared 2.4E could compete against the SC’s in H stock?

Thanks!
BK

[jmorris]

I am racing @ Sebring next weekend with PBOC....I have a 73 T 2.4L and am classed with a 94 M3 an 84 SC....I'll let you know when I get back how I did!

[ErVikingo]

Try HSR - HSRRACE.com

Lots of people from your area race in HSR.

[304065]

Well, first of all, SC's dont run in H, they run in G. And against an SC, EVERYTHING will get clobbered, including an early 2.4 "S." The narrow bodied cars are simply outgunned against cars that run 245/275 rubber.

[Grady Clay]

The really cool thing about early 911s is you can tailor one to be able to race with many groups. It is easy to have a 911 that you can vintage race, PCA DE & Club, SCCA, POC and many more.

The trade-off is how competitive you want to be. Every organization has its own set of rules. It is very reasonable to build a track 911 that conforms to many sets of rules. To do so necessitates some compromises. If you are absolutely determined to win a specific series, it is usually desirable to build your 911 to that set of preparation rules.

In some situations, you can have different tires & wheels or different engines and just swap between events.

All is great fun.

Best,
Grady

[jmorris]

John...I can't agree with you more about EVERYTHING getting clobbered by an SC...When I found out today that I was classed with one I was shocked....later I found that the guy driving it has laptimes slower than what I think I can run...we'll see what happens.....

[BK911]

Oops! I meant a prepared 2.4E in G. Since it would be prepared, you can add flares and run the same wheels as the SC. Plus have better suspension, brakes, ignition, etc.. You'd even be lighter, but less Hp. Still no match?

I just looked at the HSR website. It's kind of vague on what you're allowed to do for the historic cars. But it looks like it may be an option.

Good luck, Mr. Morris!

[jluetjen]

Hi Brian; I've raced IT (B though, not S which is where the 911 would be). Personally I think that a 2.4E would be a good car to try for ITS and would certainly be a unique solution compared to the rest of the field.



Keep in mind that the rules allow you to increase the CR by .5 -- and you can do this by swapping pistons or skimming the heads. The rules also allow you to port the heads within 1/2 inch of the manifold face. In most cars this area doesn't make a huge difference, but in the case of the 2.4E I personally believe that it would make a difference in opening up the top-end of the rev range some.

Up here in the NE, the ITS fields are often more then 23 cars strong. At the head of the field are BMW E30's, 325is's (2700 to 2800 lbs) and RX7's (2500 to almost 2700 lbs), with the top 8-9 cars within 1 second of each other at LRP. A 2.4E at 2600 lbs sounds like a fair proposition to me. Given that all of the cars are limited to a 7 inch wheel size, some sort of limited slip diff or spool would most likely be a good investment to help offset some of the 911's rear weight bias.

The other thing to consider when comparing SCCA to PCA is that two have almost mutually exlusive rules. The PCA allows tails and things that the SCCA doesn't in IT. The SCCA allows you to balance and blue-print your motor, increase the CR by .5, and port the heads within .5 inch of the manifold face -- which would kick you up to GT in PCA.

I think it comes down to what sort of racing gives you a rush? If you're looking for "One design" racing, then PCA is the way to go. If you like the idea of matching a 911's braking up against a Bimmer's handling, then ITS is the place to be.

[BK911]

Hey John! I’m kinda leaning toward the IT class. Since I’ve sold most of my interior already, it seems like the logical choice. Plus like you’ve mentioned, I can play with the engine a little bit and get to compete against other makes. I don’t think I’ll regret either decision, I just want to have a little fun.

Which class are you building your car for?

[jluetjen]

E-Prod. But chances are you'll be on-track before me.

[304065]

If development is your plan, I am firmly of the opinion that a 1969 E is the best place to start. There are at least two threads about this over on the racing forum.

[jluetjen]

In ITS, the '69E would be racing at 2385 lbs. Given the 7 inch wheel limit, there would certainly be something to be gained by a lighter car -- at least up here where we have LRP and NHIS, both at 1.5 miles and lots of turns. If you're racing at Sebring and Daytona, the extra HP from the larger larger engined 2.4 might be a better trade-off.

[304065]

Couldn't agree more, John. A 2.0E would be not so much fun at horsepower track like Road America. . . but would be a lot of fun at Lime Rock.

From the other thread. . . my original thought is that if you want to buy one car to grow with, start with a '69E. . . (not a REAL one, of course. . . a "T" shell with a 2.0E motor and COMPLETE conformity in all respects to the higher-valued original!)

Starting Point
140 HP, narrow body, runs in PCA I-stock.
"S" aluminum calipers
Ducktail, RS rear bumper and "S" spoiler.
Front and rear monoballs, adjustable antiroll bars, polybronze bushings, custom valved Bilstein shocks.
Cage, seats, fire system
All-up weight: 2194 (power to weight 15.67 lb/hp)

Drive it for a season, have fun racing I-class 944's.

Then next season, make the following mods to bump into H-prepared:

RS Fender Flares, 8" Rubber with 245/275-section Hoosiers;
930 Brakes;
3.8 RSR wing

Then after a season or two, drop in a 2.7 Carrera RS motor, and reclassify as an RS lightweight in D-Stock!
All-up weight: 2116 pounds, 210 HP (power-to-weight 10.08 lb/hp)

This is a car that could grow with the driver over the years, and you could save money to put into progressively more expensive stages of development. . . until finally . . . RSR!

[jluetjen]

I think that BK's hoping to play with the motor a bit -- but that's for him to answer. He's certainly got the background for preparing a trick car!

As far as progression goes, in the SCCA it would be from ITS to E-Prod to GT. It's not unheard of for cars built to IT specs to race in E-Prod just by putting on slicks. It wouldn't be the hottest set-up, but you'd be there. By the same token an E-Prod car could race in GT-3, and you'd get to be able to run a whale-tail if you'd like (certainly an update that could be done at the track to race in two groups on the same weekend). You'd most likely be mid-pack, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.