Est. 3.4L Twin-Plug hp output?
 

Also posted in engine rebuilding section:

I have the opportunity to acquire this motor

What kind of power numbers should this combo put out?

"3.4L engine: 930 case/crank/rods, ported and polished factory heads (twin-plug), Crane racing springs, large stainless valves, bored factory NiCom coated cylinders, Webcam high torque racing cams similar to G-80 grind, Ross 11:1 pistons, Electromotive twin-plug crankfire ignition, Weber 46 IDA3C carbs, GHL Motorsports s.s headers 1-3/4" O.D. with GHL s.s 2 in 2 out racing muffler, balanced and blueprinted"

That's all I know for now......any good guesses? 300hp?

What is this engine worth (33K on motor, ZERO miles on re-seal)? $12000?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1108510580.jpg

Thanks,

E

Paaaaaaging R. Burns......Mr. R.D. Burns........

kaisen - as I said when you posted this in "engine rebuild" 300 hp, considering the cams, piston c/r and Webers, seems doable.

Kaisen:

A 3.4 in that configuration should make anywhere from 280-340 HP, depending on the quality of the heads, any other internal mods, and how everything was assembled; thats a BIG variable. :) :)

WOW!

I have wood!

should be in the vicinity of 300hp

If I remember Wilkinson's book correctly (it's currently on loan so I can't check), he calculated 280+HP after adding 15% to the number the dyno came up with which was lower at the wheels...something like 260.

Thanks, I've followed some of your leads and links and agree that 260-340hp is about right

How about what it's worth?

I know the Electromotive crank-fire ignition set-up is ~ $1500 new
and the 46mm PMO/Weber set-up is ~ $3000 new
Twin Plug, port & polish, and perf. valve job ~ $1500
Ross 98mm pistons + rings ~ $1000
How much is the bore/Nik re-plate?
How much is everything else?

Owner claims to have over $15000 invested

.....so what does that mean it's worth now???

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1108524047.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1108524060.jpg

Thanks for any help!

E

What questions should I ask?

What 'other' relevant mods and assembly procedures should I find out about?

E

ask for compression & leakdown numbers, hours or miles, and receipts. I would be curious as to what it is being replaced with and why.

It has 33K miles on it since it was built, all documented, all receipts. Owner claims no track time. The car is definitely a street car, and this engine is still in the car.

I am considering buying the whole car, and just need to 'adjust' $$ for the motor. He still has the original 79K mile motor for the car. For my use/needs I may keep the original and sell the 3.4L.

E

Ross pistons? Does anyone use those other then Motor Mangler?

The question I would ask is "who built it?"

Tom

Yes, Motor Meister built the motor in 2001.

What does that mean?

E

brrrrroooooooooooowwwwwwwww.........records scratches to an end.
MM rebuild.....

This is your friend: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/images/top_search.gif

Based on their track record, I would be see what the market value is for used webers and electromotive, and offer that. I am guessing ~$2K, $2.5K tops.

Tom

Craig you are so cryptic :-))

I dont think a motor with those specs would run on the street very well??? Those are really racy cams.

I would not pay $***t for a MM rebuild. DO a search on those monsters.

That motor could be anything 2.2 to ????

RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY . . .

Well... with one solex carb, and one weber, a couple of pistons/cyls from a 2.0, another two from a 2.4 and a couple of really nice ones from a VW Beetle using 3.2 rods...hmmm

Paint the valve covers and the fan blue and call it a 3.4. How much more california proven do you need to be? ;)

3.4L twin-plug motors running Motronic with the usual upgrades (cams, exhaust, extrude honed plenums, chip) typically make 225-235 whp on a Dynojet. My 3.5L twin-plug motor (also using Motronic) made 239 to the wheels and 246 with some final custom chip tweaking. This can be accomplished with "normal" street compression ratios (9.5-10:1) and street gas (91 or 93 octane). With your higher compression, big carbs, better cams, etc, the numbers above should be easily surpassed.

Steve Weiner gives you a pretty good indication of what the power potential is for the motor in that configuration. If the motor is still in the car and running and you seriously are considering it, pay the $50-$100 for some dyno time and see what it actually makes. The old saying is 1 dyno test is worth 1,000 expert opinions.

I would scrutinize any documents from MM, I personally have never dealt with them (and never will) but I have a friend who worked there for a short while and the stories he tells...

Ralph

Yes, the owner mentioned a bunch of problems he had with MM when he ordered the motor...basically lots of run-around and teething problems. It sounds like all of them have been addressed, with the exception of lower than normal oil pressure (roughly 10 psi per 1000 rpm when hot).

Here's what the owner had to say about MM:

He also added that the Webers have always run rich, despite efforts to 'tune' them.

That said, the CAR is why I am interested in the deal. When a tired but complete 84-89 3.2L brings $4000-6000, what is this 3.4L worth? Even though MM was involved, the hardware is still there, with receipts, and it does (and has) run strong for 33K miles.

It isn't my car or motor yet, so your opinions are why I'm here. I won't take it personal. I think you guys rule!

SmileWavy

E

A motor built by MM is worth somewhere between nothing and the cost of the parts that survive after it blows up.

Like the man said, use the search button.

Find another car...

I've never dealt with MM, but from all I've heard of them, I wouldn't trust that motor as far as I can throw it.

However...

It sounds like the current owner addressed many external issues. Now, what about internal issues that might be the motor's concern?

Ideas:

1) Ask the CO if he can deduct the motor from the cost of the car; buy it as a roller.
2) Ask for a warranty.
3) (and probably most importantly) Call a good Porsche shop - TRE in North Hollywood, Otto's in Venice (Beach); Supertec in OC (or maybe Henry's already moved to San Diego), and get their opinion of what you want to do. You might get in over your head with a POS motor.
4) Or you can simply walk away and buy a nice SC or Carrera.

Kaisen, you should walk away from that motor. Motormeister's reputation extends from coast to coast.

Kaisen:

Randy's words here are 24kt gold.

I wouldn't take it if it were free; I've seen the innards of too many MM engines.

Find another, Sir.

MotorMeister = Walk away

If you just want the car, try to buy it as a roller or with the original motor instead.

LOL!
-Chris

"I have the opportunity to acquire this motor"

Oh.......and the last thing:
You have an even better opportunity to get another motor

I have learned a lot from this post, my buddy said steer away from MM. Seems was better advice than I allowed. MM is that bad, huh! Thanks for the interesting post and replies.

I think I'd rather aquire a good, low mileage pulled motor (euro or US) as a better option. Looks like MUCH better reliability, and at fair prices as opposed to a mangled MM motor.

But, but...........but they buy the big ads in Panorama magazine.

What is the story here?

EDIT: Just read page two of the thread, never mind - thanks for the info.:cool: