Anyone?


. ..oh, and Jack; New lenses are only 27.50 each

Carrera's have the same full throttle linkage issue.

'84-'89 Carreras don't have knock sensing. The timing is mapped in the ECU. You need a chip to bump it up.

island- that sounds right. Stock front torsion bar size '74-'89 is 19mm. Stock rear was 23mm in '74-'77, then increased to 24.1mm in '78, and then to 25mm in '86.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that in some ways my 914 is more fun to drive than my SC. On a curvey country road with lots of slow speed turns and hairpins I'd much rather have the 914. It's also more fun to drive at an autoX.

On the other hand the 914 doesn't include the thrill of smashing the accelerator and rocketing through 2nd and 3rd gear.

Thanks, Island. For some reason, I thought they were only available with the whole assembly.

At speeds below 70-80 mph, 914's are bullies. On a tight autocross course, they clobber the rest of us. But if we get a chance to stretch our legs......

I drove my brother's 2004 S4 Cabriolet recently, it was a lot of fun, and has a lot of bells and whistles, but for sheer driving entertainment my 78 SC beats it anytime.
Louder, with more road feel, felt lighter,etc.
The fact that you could buy 4 or 5 of mine to the cost of the Cabrio doesn't hurt my feelings either.

My '82 SC w/ completely stock advance mechanism(s) reached ~34deg. total advance set @ factory spec of 5 deg. BTDC, so I'm not sure where you are getting this info(?) This would be the most advance you would ever want, any more and you would be going backwards, performance-wise.

You are right about worn out throttle linkage, but that can happen on any car, not just 911SCs. :cool:

Aud and Jack, you guys have it right. Its all about perception; not that that's a bad thing.

The "early car" feel is a different issue-those cars are considerably lighter on their feet; the driving experience is magnitudes different.

And yes, even a 4 cyl 914 below say, 80 mph, is more "fun"- b/c its more like an "early car", but not b/c its in any way faster.

Heck in the hard twisties my 4 cyl 356 is a hell of a lot more fun to drive than any 911 I can imagine. Its light as a feather and corners almost as well as a motorcycle. Like someone already posted........"Driving a slow car fast is more fun than a fast car slow"........its really true. Actually a well set up 356 can keep right up with the 911s on the track too. Ask Mark Akers.

The whole reason I ended up buying an old 911 is because my previous car (a warmed over sti) was plenty quick but I also found it less than inivigorating unless I was really punching it hard (in which case you really have to go to a track). So on the average trip down the coast or into the mountains I didn't feel like I was getting a whole lot for my dollar unless it was doing pretty big speeds. It was just so good at what it did that you didn't get a thrill until you were going that much faster. Now if I look at the stats, hp, 0-100, power to weight, track times or any of those issues my old car would leave the 911 behind but - and it's a big but - the 911's are just way more entertaining at low - middle speeds. So you can really enjoy them on the twisties without having to feel like you should be on a track (although I'm sure it will still be fun on a track). I personally think that fast & fun are not always linked so tightly (used to) unless you are on a track every weekend.

The 99 Corvette that my wife owned a couple of years ago (6 speed) was the fastest and most capable car that has ever been in our household. It was also absolutely no fun to drive unless you were going 10/10ths and then you were also about to go-directly-to-jail. Give me an old, relatively light weight, crotchety, crusty car (86 or prior 911, e30 or e28 chassis BMW, A1 or A2 chassis VW, old Datsun, ect.) for driving fun anyday! Oh, and don't put any of those stick tires on it either ... I wanna slide it!

I have an '82SC Coupe that makes 200RWHP. Stock suspension except new Bilstein Sports all around.

I also have an '84 Euro (231Hp crank) Carrera Coupe (sunroof delete option) stock, with new Bilstein Sports all around.

The SC weighed in at 2460lbs. I've not weighed the Carrera yet.

But I can say that the SC is a TON more fun to drive. Not only is it faster, but it feels about 1000lbs lighter (much more nimble and tight/connected to the road).


I purchased the Carrera thinking that I would be selling my SC project. But as it turns out... the SC ain't goin' nowhere.

It's the Carrera that's going to get sold.


Just my 2 cents


TonyG

What work was done to the SC? Not sounding like an apples to apples comparison.

RickM

Both have exact same suspension systems.

The Euro Carrera is rated at 231HP, 80k miles. It pulls smooth and is very powerful for a stock engine.

The SC has PMO carbs, SSI's, and mild cams, new engine. It makes 200RWHP at a peak of 6000 rpms on a dynojet.

I've overlaid the SC dyno chart on top of several US 3.2 chipped Carrera's. They are almost identical.

There is no HP advantage of one over the other (perhaps the Carrera is making a little more power than the SC if any).

Like I said.. I've not weighed the Carrera. But it's a Euro model with no sunroof (so it's lighter). I'm sure it's not as light as the SC at 2460lbs (with 1/2 tank of fuel).

But the thing is that the SC feels about 750-1000lbs (exageration to make a point... but the difference in feel is substantial) lighter than the Carrera. Same suspension, same shocks, same torsion bars, same sway bars, same tie rod ends, etc...

I can't put my finger n it... but the SC is just a LOT more fun to drive. Much more of a true sports car feel.

The Carrera feels a teeny weeny bit more refined in that the power is very smooth and the car is quieter than the SC. But it just feels like a pig compared to the SC.


TonyG


PS> The SC is at it's current weight because of:

1. removal of spare/tool kit
2. Lightweight Odysee battery
3. CIS injection replaced with PMO carbs.
4. Aftermarket 2 in/2 out muffler
5. A/C compressor removed (all other portions of A/C still installed)

I'm guessing the PMO / free-flowing exhaust combination improves throttle response massively. Throttle response has a huge part in the perceived quickness of a car.

Tony- just interested. How do you deal with smog in CA w/ the SC? I would love to add carbs to mine.

ubiquity0

It's not that the car feels faster. It is faster.

I've run up against my friends at WSIR with chipped Euro Carrera's and a 964RS.

I would easily pull the the euro Carrera Cab on any straight (and in any corner) with a 275lbs passenger in my car.

With a 275lbs passenger, my SC was about dead even with the 964RS down the straights.

But the point is that the SC just feels a ton more responsive, much lighter, and generally... more sports car like.

It's just more fun to drive by a large margin.

Like I said... I purchased the Carrera thinking that I'd like it more. That I would sell the SC. But after some time with both, it's the Carrera that's going to get sold... not the SC.



Smog? What smog? :-) Money talks...

TonyG

Tony,

I'd really like to get to the bottom of this so I can wake my 84 up. It's been a long time since I had my 76 or my 79, but in my mind they were much nimbler.

Since you have them both side by side so to speak, you are the lab experiment we need to figure this out!

One thing you have not mentioned in compairing the two, what wheel's/tires are you running on the two cars?

Russ in VA

The SC has 7"x9" Fuchs with Falcon FK451 205/245 tires

The Carrera has 6"x7" Fuchs with Michelin XGT-V Sport 205/225 tires

But it's not the tires...

It's the way the car rotates, the way it transfers its weight around. It just feels.... much more nimble, more responsive and more communicative (feedback). It feels like it weights substantially lighter.

Like I said... I can't put my finger on it.

Both are great cars FWIW....

TonyG

What are the suspension specs of each car (including age of bushings, shocks etc.)?
What are your alignment specs on each car?
Also has either car been corner balanced?