Practical Brake Upgrade Options

[Rich76_911s]

I know about the Big Red and GTP brake upgrades, and have read several times on this board that for a early (mid year) 911 they are overkill. I just have never really found what a good brake upgrade is that is not overkill. I am looking to build a 90% street car maybe 10% track car. My calipers are pretty much rusted through-out so i will almost certainly have to upgrade. From what I read in old posts the most important factors in upgrading brakes is rotor and caliper size, as the surface area dissapates heat faster, correct? I am thinking of using the lindsey wheels 9's up front 11's in the rear. And the 76 911 will have a 3.2 L in the back end. What are your suggestions?

[IROC]

I would seriously consider merely upgrading to Carrera brakes. Your car essentially has Carrera power (the 3.2) but is somewhat lighter, so the Carrera brakes should give you a little bit of margin over a standard Carrera application.

This is what I did, FWIW, and the brakes have been great. Plus, it's a cheap upgrade as brake upgrades go.

Mike

[Wavey]

Keep in mind that the bigger brake components also weigh more and can have an adverse effect on unsprung weight.

[armandodiaz]

If it's mostly street stick with the Carrera upgrade. Everything else is costly and time consuming. Along with the upgrade, remember to upgrade the rest of your brake system:
Steel braided lines
ATL brake fluid
A good set of pads(Pagid, Hawk, PFC...)
Cooling ducts
23mm MC(optional but nice)

[Yellowbird RS]

944 turbo/ 964 calipers great performance and cheap upgrade
my .02

[Rich76_911s]

If I recall correctly from my reading of old posts. Isn't there only one model year of the 944 turbo brakes that you can use for this update?

[armandodiaz]

Too many modifications in order to use the 944T brakes. Go to VCI's website they tell you all about it. The Carrera set up is pure bolt on. If it's good enough for the track, they are definately good enough for the street. Remember modifications = $$$.

[JTL]

Would the c2 brake upgrade be worthy for the -84-89 Carrera? Do the rotors need to be changed as well and will the c2 calipers clear 16¨ Fuchs? I don't want to go with big reds because of the cost, weight and wheel clearance.

Rgds, jt

[armandodiaz]

C2 brakes are overkill. If you don't change the rotors your rotors will become worse. Yes, they will fit under 16". Cost and weight will kill you with the C2s also.
Do a search for brake upgrades, look for Bill V posts and his webpage. He has a run down of the dos and don'ts for brake upgrades.

[Rich76_911s]

I was just looking at the information on their web site. Here is a link to their page for anyone who finds this in the future.
http://www.vehiclecraft.com/Brakes/VCI911_2_964.htm

and another great source is:
http://home.nycap.rr.com/wmv/index.htm
I think this is Bill V's page but I am not posotive.

and another source that I just found:
http://www.rennsportsystems.com/2c.html

I am leaning toward the carerra set up due to is ease of installation, and they seem to be the most practical without going overboard. Is there any way to be able to correctly identify the 84 -89 calipers and rotors? I am going to go to hershey in april and would like to try and find a set out there. What is a reasonable price for calipers and rotors? Thanks

Rich

[doozer]

I have some 84 brakes in the for sale section that were just rebuilt...

[randywebb]

Yes, once the system reaches thermal steady-state (if ever) then it is the surface area that counts. But, often (usually? always?) the system will be in a thermal transient condition (warming up) and then it is the thermal "inertia" that matters - composed of the mass of the system and its heat capacity. The latter is about the same for all non-ceramic brakes, so it is really the mass that matters. The mass of the rotor esp. That rotor mass is what absorbs the heat from the pad/rotor interface (where the heat is generated). The rise in temperature of the rotor is a lower rate when the rotor is more massive.

More air helps - obviously. It removes heat from the surface of the rotor (mainly) and the caliper. At any given instant, the temperature of the caliper is a function of the heat generation from friction of the pad, thermal inertia, the rate of heat removal, and the temperature in the last instant (time slice). You can write equations for all this and then try to sovle them.... Or just try something that is very likely to work.

avoid Steel braided lines unless you will throw them away every year. you cannot check their integrity like you can with the rubber lines. Put on new rubber lines every 8 years and you'll be fine. There is little to be gained in pedal feel with hard lines. If you just cannot ignore the advertising screed then at least get ones that are DOT approved.

You can start with simple diverters instead of ducting and see if that solves your problems. Move to ducts if needed.

I agree with the advice to get the minimal calipers needed. It is common for people to put on big heavy calipers that actually hurt performance and the wallet -- this is driven by advertising and lack of thought into what is really functional -- it's like tailfins on a Caddillac... Bill V's web site has all the info. and you can search for more info on everything above.

Oh yeh, if you paint the Carrera calipers red your braking performance will improve enormously...

[doozer]

Dont paint small brakes red if you have big wheels = Clown Shoes

[JohnJL]

I prefer keeping Porsche parts (if you don't count JE, ARP, uhhhhh) but you could pick up a set of Audi S4 brakes cheap from one of those guys who ofter upgrade to Big Reds and have full sets of calipers, rotors, etc.

[JeremyD]

I think the 993 brakes are a nice compromise between cost/availability/and performance.

Busy weekend coming up - Brakes and such

[armandodiaz]

Originally posted by randywebb
Yes, once the system reaches thermal steady-state (if ever) then it is the surface area that counts. But, often (usually? always?) the system will be in a thermal transient condition (warming up) and then it is the thermal "inertia" that matters - composed of the mass of the system and its heat capacity. The latter is about the same for all non-ceramic brakes, so it is really the mass that matters. The mass of the rotor esp. That rotor mass is what absorbs the heat from the pad/rotor interface (where the heat is generated). The rise in temperature of the rotor is a lower rate when the rotor is more massive.

More air helps - obviously. It removes heat from the surface of the rotor (mainly) and the caliper. At any given instant, the temperature of the caliper is a function of the heat generation from friction of the pad, thermal inertia, the rate of heat removal, and the temperature in the last instant (time slice). You can write equations for all this and then try to sovle them.... Or just try something that is very likely to work.

avoid Steel braided lines unless you will throw them away every year. you cannot check their integrity like you can with the rubber lines. Put on new rubber lines every 8 years and you'll be fine. There is little to be gained in pedal feel with hard lines. If you just cannot ignore the advertising screed then at least get ones that are DOT approved.

You can start with simple diverters instead of ducting and see if that solves your problems. Move to ducts if needed.

I agree with the advice to get the minimal calipers needed. It is common for people to put on big heavy calipers that actually hurt performance and the wallet -- this is driven by advertising and lack of thought into what is really functional -- it's like tailfins on a Caddillac... Bill V's web site has all the info. and you can search for more info on everything above.

Oh yeh, if you paint the Carrera calipers red your braking performance will improve enormously...

Remember, he will be doing some DEs with the car, so the upgrade of the lines and ducting can come into play.

Personnely, I thought yellow calipers were faster and lighter.

[JeremyD]

If you go with 944 turbo brakes you will have to space your front hub out a few mm so the 944 front rotors can clear the A arm ball. That and the machining necessary turned me off the 944t solution. Check out Bill V's site. He's forgotten more about brakes than most of us will know. The track that you will be DE'ng makes a difference too. My home town track, Sebring is pretty brutal on brakes - but others can be much easier. I would think in outerspace you will have minimal overheating with less gravity - so you may be able to make due with a stock solution

[RallyJon]

I agree with the advice to get the minimal calipers needed.

Then how about these? Same piston area as SC or Carrera A calipers. Same pad too. Available to fit a 20mm or 24mm rotor. The best part? Each caliper weighs about 2 lbs. You keep your thermal mass and shed a few lbs per wheel of unsprung weight.

[Paulporsche]

The current issue of "911 and Porsche World" has an upgrade using Boxster calipers.

[JeremyD]

Originally posted by Paulporsche
The current issue of "911 and Porsche World" has an upgrade using Boxster calipers.

Isn't that Boxster Calipers on Carrera rotors? Not much of an upgrade.