R-134a Freon

[3.2 CAB]

Has anyone else noticed the steep increase in the price of R-134A freon. It went from $59.00 to $170.00 for the 30lb jug, this is Sam's price, other sources are around $250.00 The 12oz cans are selling for almost $15.00 each at Autozone and other parts houses. I dug into this for a reason in the increase, and found that the big-ass dam they are building in China, the 3 gorges dam, is using almost all the worlds supply of 134A to cool the concrete, so it does not take a hundred years or more to cure and cool down. Just wondering if anyone else had noticed this cost increase. There is no such thing a cheap freon anymore!

[RickM]

Maybe a good business....134A production. Duracool and other R12 replacements are seeming more attractive every day.

[jbrinkley]

it wasn't even on the shelf at autozone this morning, it was behind the counter. Dude said it was $10 but I remember it was 4.99 last summer.
If I remember, someone did say that we/I should stock up before the price increase. I NEVER LEARN

[stlrj]

To avoid confusion, Freon is Dupont's name for R-12. R-134a is normally just called refrigerant.


Joe

[Jim Sims]

$8 for a 13 oz. can in Albuquerque, NM at Checker Auto.

[MikeBogue]

There has also been talk in the last few years about banning the 134a due to enviromental concerns. If they do it it would still not be for a few years and then a few years to phase it out. Now they are talking about going back to amonia refrigeration. Who knows.

[Jayt]

I work at a specialty packaging company that buys HFC-134a in 4,000 gallon, bulk shipments. Due to a number of circumstances related to the phase-out of ozone depleting refrigerants and new usages for HFC-134a (rigid foam insulation, etc.), the global demand for 134a currently exceeds production capacity. Prices have doubled in the past 6 months and continue to rise, with big chunks of production allocated to OEM automakers.
If you do your own MAC work, you would be well advised to buy 134a now....prices are, and will continue to go up. Supply is now very tight at the manufacturing level (Dupont, Ineos, Archema, etc.).....it will be very difficult and expensive for the home mechanic to buy 134a refrigerant this summer.

[ruf-porsche]

Pick up a stash now before they won't let you buy it like R12.

If you were smart you would have stash away some R12 when it was only $.50 a can.

[Emission]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
Pick up a stash now before they won't let you buy it like R12.

If you were smart you would have stash away some R12 when it was only $.50 a can.

How long can you store it?

[Miguel Antonett]

I changed to Duracool a couple of years ago to refill my old R-12 system, and it worked great. Since then I have cold A/C and I believe it even sealed the system, because I haven't refilled it again to maintain 45-50 degrees at the vents.

[Jayt]

There is no shelf-life on HFC-134a. You can store it indefinately.

[ruf-porsche]

As long as the can doesn't starts to rust you can store it indefinitely. Although I wouldn't store it inside a house since if it does leak it could react with an open flame such as a pilot light on a water heater or furnance. This is for R12, not sure if it is the same for R134a.

[Emission]

I should buy ten cases then peddle the stuff on eBay in 2008!

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by Emission
I should buy ten cases then peddle the stuff on eBay in 2008!

Once they restrict the sale of R134a, they will not allow you to sell the refrigerant to anyone unless they are certified. If you look on eBay most seller require you to provide them with a copy of your certification to handle refrigerant. There is a fine for selling refrigerant to someone who is not certify.

Buy a case for yourself, don't buy 9 cases to make a profit on in 2008..

[jacko241]

You must remember the reason they developed R-134a was it was NOT supposed to be ozone-depleting.

[3.2 CAB]

I have had my card for many years, and glad I do. I lucked into a deal on R12 a while back, on 3Olb. jugs, $300.00 a jug delivered, that averages out to only $7.50/12oz. can. Has anyone ever tried R22 in an auto system? It is only $60.00/30lb jug.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by jacko241
You must remember the reason they developed R-134a was it was NOT supposed to be ozone-depleting.

It may not be ozone depleting but there are some other environmental issues with R134a, especially if people start venting the stuff into the environment instead of recovering it.

[magic930]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
It may not be ozone depleting but there are some other environmental issues with R134a, especially if people start venting the stuff into the environment instead of recovering it.

You mean we shouldn't use it in a Porsche ac system or simply spray a can at your feet in the passenger compartment when it gets too hot

[kenrinc]

134a was a farce from the start. I think the ozone depleting aspect of 134a is only 1/3rd of the issue. 134a is extremely toxic stuff and that's above and beyond the toxicity of the special synthetic oil that is used to lubricate 134a systems. Most people are totally oblivious to this fact and don't realize how toxic this stuff is! Not even the guys evacuating systems for a living! It has been known for years that this stuff causes testicular cancer upon inhalation, along with death not to mention that due to it's acidity, it ruins the seals in most A/C systems even systems retrofitted or supplied direct from the manufacturer for use with 134a. And that's just the refrigerant 134a itself! The synthetic lube that is injected along with it is carcinogenic too! Nearly every country in the world has banned it's use and moved on to alternative hydrocarbon based refrigerants mostly due to the above issues and the fact that 134a is just an inferior product when compared to hydrocarbon alternatives. You know, the ones that our gov still won't recognize :-)

Why did we ever use it and still continue to use it? Totally political IMHO. Most problably a political stepping stone. It's all about money and politics and who is selling stock in what company. With the current regime in place I don't see that changing anytime soon.....

Ken-

[jacko241]

motor oil is carcinogenic