964 Cams On an SC or other HP upgrades

Stophos · Stophos's Garage

I'm gonna have to live with a 3.0L for now. I don't want to do the complete engine so I was thinking cams. Has anybody put 964 cams (or other) on a 3.0 engine? Does this work and what is the gain? Any other adjustments necessary or is this plug and play? Any other bolt on HP upgrades other than exhaust?
Thanks,
Chris

iamchappy · iamchappy's Garage

Turbo best bang for the buck

Stophos · Stophos's Garage

I'd love that kind of boost but its a little over the top budget wise and work wise. I would guess that unless I'm going with very little boost I would have to rebuild the engine. I would like upgrades that don't call for cracking the case.

Slider79SC · Slider79SC's Garage

I did the 964 cams (sent mine in to Elgin to have re-ground) with SSI headers and I do like it. Moved the powerband up which worked really well with my short geared transmission....

Although a turbo IS in my future... MUHAhahahaha......

aigel · aigel's Garage

Cams will help, but only if you do exhaust and richen the mix at the same time. What goes in, must come out!

George

juanbenae · juanbenae's Garage

how would the cam profile effect california smog testing? would you be able to reinstall the stock exhaust system, adjust fuel/air say,,, once every two years and have it run well enough to pass the testing?

have you done this mod george?

cmonref · 03-15-2005, 04:04 AM

Noah,

Just read your article (link above). Might you be planning to incorporate your thoughts on EFI as an option?

And while we're in the "other people's ideas for things for you to do", could you toss in an operating report on your EFI conversion? Howgozit over time with the tBitz/Megasquirt EFI?

Brian

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I did this and just came back from my first track event with the "new" SC. I sent my cams to John Dougherty. I think it was $290. I put SSI's on and also a B&B dual in/out. Car ROCKS now. I had Webcams 20/21 in my Carrera and it still didn't really kick in until 4k. The SC has great torque throughout the band. I'll dyno it in June.

camgrinder · 03-15-2005, 07:59 AM

964 Cams will pass smog testing in California.
An aftermarket exhaust system will help you get the most from the cams.
You will also need new or reconditioned rocker arms.

thabaer · thabaer's Garage

Do 964 cams have more overlap than SC cams ? BA has said SC cams work well with turbos, but if the overlap doesn't increase then 964s could be even better.

camgrinder · 03-15-2005, 08:19 AM

Charlie,
The SC cams work very well with turbos.
A 964 cam has more overlap than the SC cam. It will work in a 930 with an upgraded turbo, but the low speed "off boost" performance can suffer.

dd74 · 03-15-2005, 08:51 AM

With 964 cams installed in my engine, would there be a significant power difference between my heat exchangers, Bursch headers and SSIs, or is it all relatively the same?

Mysterytrain · 03-15-2005, 10:29 AM

I went with the 964 cams when I had my engine rebuilt last spring. Unfortunately since I also did the 3.2 short stroke mod along with SSI's and 2/1 Dansk its hard to say if the 964's alone would have been a big improvement..what I can say is WOW,I love this little motor! I kept the CIS in the event NJ was going to force me into have the emissions tested..but as a collector car they didn't.

dd74 · 03-15-2005, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mysterytrain
I went with the 964 cams when I had my engine rebuilt last spring. Unfortunately since I also did the 3.2 short stroke mod along with SSI's and 2/1 Dansk its hard to say if the 964's alone would have been a big improvement..what I can say is WOW,I love this little motor! I kept the CIS in the event NJ was going to force me into have the emissions tested..but as a collector car they didn't.

An engine like yours is what I'd build since I have almost all the parts except the cams and pistons. How high does it rev? Have you had it dynoed?

Mysterytrain · 03-15-2005, 11:52 AM

With roughly 3000 miles on her I haven't pushed the limits nor has it been dyno'ed. I need to find a dyno here in NJ, I would really like to know what this thing is putting out.

randywebb · 03-15-2005, 12:01 PM

Depending on what you do to the valve train, you will be safe to 8,000 - at a minimum, you'll need Ti keepers and the Aase valve springs. Or is it Aasco? - I forget this stuff after I finish a project...

Naturally, that does not mean you will make much power at that rpm -- or that you want to, depending on what track you are set up for. If it is to be streetable, or used for Ax don't even try to g that high.

dd74 · 03-15-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by randywebb
Depending on what you do to the valve train, you will be safe to 8,000 - at a minimum, you'll need Ti keepers and the Aase valve springs. Or is it Aasco? - I forget this stuff after I finish a project...

Naturally, that does not mean you will make much power at that rpm -- or that you want to, depending on what track you are set up for. If it is to be streetable, or used for Ax don't even try to g that high.

Randy - if I ever did this project, I'd like a redline of 7,000 - maybe 7,500. I would be hopeful, however, that whatever low-end I'd lose would be made up with my gearing and the fact that the 3.2 short stroke would make a comparable, if not larger amount of torque than my 3.0. I do know that my 3.0 makes 197 lbs of torque, which is twelve more pounds of torque than a standard 3.2, so I would think a 3.2 short stroke would make a nice deal more torque on top of what is made by my 3.0, and at that, a good amount more than a motronic 3.2.

I don't know. I'm just projecting/brainstorming. What are your thoughts? Or anyone else's?

randywebb · 03-15-2005, 03:26 PM

It's all about money....

The 3.2 heads flow a lot better than the 3L ones....

You could certainly do a 3.2 shortstroke from a 3L... Randy Jones or Randy Wells did this.

Just remember there is NO substitute for a vario-cam setup -- so if you want a lot of high end, you will lose on the low end... of course, gearing can compensate for that in relative terms.

I'd hook up with a good engine builder down there and get advice. Up here, there are two top people/groups in Portland, but it's not like growing Pinot Noir or something - TRE, and many others in SoCal will be as good if there is nobody in New Orleans or Houston, depending where you are in the state.

I'd still do the valve train mods - in fact I did them on my engine, even tho it is purely a street car.

There is also the whole idea of twin-plugging it - I would definitely have the heads drilled for twin plugs. You can add the really expensive part later if you want.

But... you also have to think about whether it might make sense to just go to a 3.6L -- when I began mine these were spendier and much less common. Today, it seems like that is the way to go for most.

And what about emissions? Anything you have to meet?

I'd also consider how easy it is to have A/C with the various engine mods. I grew up in Baton Rouge, and refuse to visit after April... I survived somehow tho... and we didn't have car A/C back in the dark ages.... But why suffer?