Help - installing new spark plug wires - running POORLY after
 

This is going to sound really lame. Especially since I used to work as a mechanic and pride myself at having decent experience and a bit of common sense. I just got my '86 3.2 carrera engine running last night after getting my car (71 tub - RSR look) back from the bodyshop. Last night the car ran great (but just in the garage), though it was VERY loud with the MB911 RSR dual outlet muffler. That's the good news.

This morning, I changed out the stock spark plug wires (Beru), which were no longer flexible (they were petrified, actually.) Despite the condition of the wires, the engine idled and revved very well.

I installed new Clewett wires from Pelican for my application. They look very nice. At first, they seemed tough to install as far as seating the spark plug ends, but I read the directions and went to work. Having learned from other posts, I listened for the click when the wire ends "click" in place onto the spark plug terminals. Once I had everything ready to go, I fired up the engine. It ran like *****. Really badly, would barely idle. Wouldn't rev, smells like raw fuel, big time. Obviously a spark problem (at least that is my thought). My clothes still smell like unburned fuel.

First, I figured I had the order messed up. I have double and triple checked the order, even matching the numbers on the wires to those on the cap. I've inspected the rotor and cap and both look very new. I've traced the wires and the longest on each side go to the back.

I'm thinking I should install the old wires and see how it runs. I actually placed a call to Clewett, hoping for a magic bullet. He said to make sure the ends click onto the plug. I did pull two plugs and test fit to listening for the click, so I could see it work. Both plugs were wet w/ fuel, not dripping, but definitely wet and smelly.

I am confident I have all six properly installed in the correct firing order. My garage is bright, so I couldn't see any "glow" from leaking spark, when it was running.

Additionally, I tried swapping back the old wire from the distributor to coil with the same result.

Any thoughts?

What am I missing?

Doug

Gotta be firing order surely?

Are you using left rearmost cylinder as No1?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1111697035.jpg

Yeah, the one wire is so short, it wouldn't fit anywhere else. Number six is very long and doesn't fit anywhere else. I just used that same diagram and checked again, everything is 100% correct in firing order. This is really puzzling.

Doug

Unfortunately it sounds like its time to fire it up and start pulling wires individually...one or more must not be firing.........

Guys - good thoughts.
Thanks for your consideration!

Doug

Did you make sure that they were well seated into the distributor cap?

Neil,
Thanks! they actually click when they mate with the studs. They all seem to be well seated on both ends :-( I'm thinking I need to put the old wires in one by one and see how it runs.

Doug

Doug, I just went through this last weekend myself. Replaced the stock, crumbly wires in my 86 3.2 with new Clewett wires. I had the same result after the first try - engine ran rough. The problem was that the wires don't always give a nice satisfying click, so I had to keep pulling them off and putting them back on several times before I had all 6 on there. The ones that actually click you can be sure of, and just work on the others. Also, make sure they're tight on the distributor cap. It took me about an hour of trial and error before I got all of them on good.

It would be an awful lot easier if the plugs weren't buried 5 inches deep. Even when I thought a plug was on, it wasn't always.

To clarify I meant the wire ends click when they mate with the studs on the distributor cap. Both ends seem well seated. I'm wondering if I ended up with a bad set of wires? This seems rare, but something I haven't ruled out. It runs so bad though that I think it has to be more than one dead cylinder.

Yesterday it ran smooth as could be.

Doug

Dave,
Thanks for the heads up! I did notice the click to be getting easier to generate. For some reason, the engine seems to be running worse, though I've gotten all six to firmly click into place. I'll go at it again and report back.

Doug

I'm sure you are a pretty good mechanic. I'm not that bad myself. But, I can tell you that I have felt certain that I have had the wires in order more than once when changing them out and they weren't.

As soon as I heard the misfire, I went to work finding out which wires were wrong and invarialby, I found one pair swapped. If that is the only thing you have done to the car, what else could it be?

I guess you could check the wires with a meter just to be sure.

Some of us right-brained (or is it left?) guys have a harder time with this than others. ;)

Dave,
Did you apply any di-electric grease to the boot end which clicks onto the plug?

Doug

Zeke,
Good thoughts - I'm confident it is "pilot" error happening here. I'm posting because I know I probably made a mistake. I'll review order again as I triple check the clicking and maybe pull out the Ohm meter.

Will circle back around with all of you to let you know what's going on.

Doug

Did you replace them one at a time or all at once?

If the dizzy's been out before (Likely on a 911) it may have re-installed incorrectly and to compensate the wires might have been moved round one or two poles (on the cap). Double check by lining up Z1 on crank to mark on housing. Rotor should be pointing to 1 or 4 depending on which cyl is on firing stroke.

Also check multiplug to AFM hasn't got dislodged.

This has gotta be something simple....

Dizz rotor is good?

I didn't even remove the distributor cap, to replace the wires. I replaced the wires one at a time, but all six + one to coil before restarting the engine.

When it ran poorly, I double checked the cap and rotor condition. They both look brand new.

Doug

Yes, I put a nice blob just inside the opening of the plug end. and spread it around inside a little. I wasn't sure that was where I was supposed to put it (this was my first time changing plug wires and have never seen anyone else do it), but I managed to get the job done. I installed a new cap and rotor at the same time.

I had this exact same problem with the Clewett wires. I just sent mine back to Pelican today. I believe I was sent the wrong wires. Mine were about 3/4" too long and did not seal to the valve covers. I had no rubber boots on the end of the connectors and the seals for the valve cover were not made to adjust. I measured the stock Beru wires with the Clewett wires that I had and the Clewett wires were 1/4" longer. They would click on the plug no doubt. Pelican is sending me another set of Clewett wires since they think the wrong wires were placed in my box. My car would run but it had no power. There is no way they could have been the right wires compared to the old because it is physically impossible for them to seal. Were your plugs sealing with the valve covers?

hoff944 - they don't seat well with the valve covers and they are too long because I don't have AC installed and these are intended to route below the compressor. I may have to give them up.

Doug

I don't have AC either. They need to seal on the valve covers to keep the air, rain, and dirt from getting in. If my next set measures the same, I am sending them back and getting the stock Beru's or Magnacores. The Clewett's seem like good wires if they would fit right and make my car run right.

My Clewetts don't seal with the valve covers. The round seal sticks up about 1/4" high. The holes in the valve covers had lots of dirt in them even with the stock Beru wires, which sealed.

They should be sealing. I talked to Richard Clewett and he said that some of the models had adjustable seals to seal to the valve covers, but mine didn't have those. Mine also didn't have the rubber seal on the end of the connector that goes on the spark plug. Also, Richard Clewett told me that sometimes, depending on the spark plug you use, you need to remove the rubber seal that goes around the spark plug to take away the clearance and seal the seal to the valve covers.

On my Clewett wires, the valve cover hole seal can be slid up and down on the plug connector, and fits tightly in the valve cover hole. It doesn't sit flush with the valve cover surface, I'm not sure why it needs to?

As was mentioned in earlier threads re: sealing the valve cover enhances/maintains the air (cooling) circulation......

"As was mentioned in earlier threads re: sealing the valve cover enhances/maintains the air (cooling) circulation......" by kqw.

Good to know.

Doug

Fire up the engine, then hook up the timing light to plug wire one and see if the light flickers. Then go to cyl2 and do the same. No light where the plug is not firing.

Doug,
Great tip!

Doug

I installed the old wires and the engine fired right up w/o missing. The clewetts were tough to remove and seemingly seated properly. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I'm going to have to return them. The Beru's are still in sad shape - I'll address those very soon. Some may have a better experience with Clewetts than me. It is plausible that I can be doing something wrong. The firing order was correct w/ both the Clewett's and now with the old wires.

Thanks for all of your help!

Doug

I just got my 85 running today after spending at least 2 hours futzing with the wires. I changed cap, rotor and wires, using Clewitts. Same exact situation as you. Turns out 2 wires were not seating on the plugs, numbers 3 and 4. What a royal pain. I suggest you use the di-electric grease across the plug end of the wire. This way once you think you have seated them correctly, you can check to see if the grease has been disturbed.

Hey some folks on this board have luck with Clewitts some do not.

I wonder if the same wires were manufactured/designed for several other auto's, not just the 911.

If your engine is cold, you can also feed the pipes underneath to see which ones are hot and which ones are not. I find this more effective than the timing lamp...

I will be talking with Rick about these wires next week. I have plenty of customers who are happy with them, but I have also had a number of returns on them...

-Wayne

I wish I had known that before I bought them. This tread is the first I heard of problems with them. I never did get the number 4 to fit, I am using one of the old ones. Wayne, any chance of just replacing that one? In the process of attempting installation (over two hours), the spark plug boot became so chewed up that it is unusable.

Gary

Magnecor 10 mm !

That's funny because brand new Beru cables come out of the bag just as hard and petrified as your 20yr old wires.

Joe

Has anyone had any luck using Wayne's technique for identifying which cyl is missing? You start a cold 911 engine and by feeling which cylinder's exhaust pipe doesn't heat up as quickly you determine the missing cylinder. For the life of me, I didn't have any luck. Perhaps you could do a test where a friend pulls off a plug wire and then you try to identify which one it was.

I had the same exact trouble with my Clewett wires. After initial installation the car was missing. After pulling one wire at a time to find out which one it was I determined it was #6.
The rubber sealing boots for the valve covers can be adjusted up or down as needed.
I emailed Richard Clewett and he was very fast to respond.
Rich told me that he was having trouble with the boot/connectors snapping onto the plugs........Bosch Platinum plugs to be exact.
I have these plugs installed and on one of them I removed the plug and screwed on a different tip from an old plug. This helped.
I also used the old rubber boots and applied some adhesive silicone sealant and installed them on the new Clewett wires. The bottom boots help the wire center and guide onto the plugs.
It has taken a few times of screwing around with the but they are working fine now. All seated and sealed. #6 wire is about 6" too long, but I can live with that.

Hope this helps.
PS I almost sent them back but I am a tenaciuos type of individual

Doug, I am having a problem w/ my car now, and did just use the temperature technique. I was too chicken to crawl under the car while it was running, though. Instead, I let the car get nice and hot, then crawled under (engine off) and measured temp at the exhaust port-to-heat exchanger connection, using an infrared thermometer ($50 or so). I suspect you could use a quick-reading cooking thermometer too (like you'd stick into a roast). My suspect bad cylinder was appx 200F, the other ones were appx 300F, it was a pretty clear difference.

As long as we're all installing and removing plug wires, what is a good way to clean out the "valleys" where the plugs go? Despite the plug wire-to-valve cover seals, I still have gunk there - enough that if I let a plug scrape against the valley side, I have to clean dirt off the plug threads.

John,

If it were my engine I would pull the plug connector, leave the spark plug in place, squirt the hole with Simple Green, let it set a few mins., then get out the garden hose with the pistol nozzel and blast away.

Cheers,

Joe